House extension - new electrical installations

[Paul_Thomas]

Having done a fair bit of searching and reading on the Part P regulations in various posts on this site, I would just like to confirm a few things.
We have just submitted plans to our local planning office for a extension to our house above and behind our garage. I plan on managing contractors to do some of the building work and would like to do the plumbing and as much electrical work as possible myself.

As we are going to have to submit plans for Building Regulation approval and a large fee for the inspections, is there any reason I can't carry out 1st and 2nd fix myself for all electrical work ?
I am planning on replacing our existing fuse board with a new larger capacity one anyway, I would get an electrician to do this and make the final conenctions to the board.

I have done a number of electrical installations within my house in the past and believe I am more than competent to do this. If I am unsure I always seek advice.

Are there any good books anyone could recommend that give guidance to meeting the IEEE regulations ?

 

[Bazdaa]

As far as I am aware. If you extend a ring, then you dont need to contact Building Control (unless in a kitchen or bathroom). However if you run back to the CU, then you will also need to contact Building Control.

As far as installations go. I think for electricians, it's a case of all or nothing. As I remember someone commenting (on here) that the most you'll get is a PIR doc from them! I'm sure one of the pro's will confirm or deny soon.

 

[Paul_Thomas]

We have to gain Building Regulations approval for the extension anyway so they will be visiting on a regular basis, they may as well inspect the electrical work as well.

 

[Bazdaa]

Thats a good point. Would be good to know what happens, as I'm about to follow the same extension path (hopefully soon).

I'm sure thier fee will go up however. As my local council takes a percentage of the estimated cost. If thats not organised crime, then I don't know what is!

 

[BJS_Spark]

They will have to check the elctrical installation in the extension under the same fee but you might find it difficult to get them to do the test and inspection. Therefore who will do this? I guess your pro will not cause he didn't do the work.

 

[Paul_Thomas]

Does it have to be inspected and tested ?

Would the Pro not have to carry out some inspections and tests after fitting a new board ?

 

[HDRW]

Having done a fair bit of searching and reading on the Part P regulations in various posts on this site, I would just like to confirm a few things.
We have just submitted plans to our local planning office for a extension to our house above and behind our garage. I plan on managing contractors to do some of the building work and would like to do the plumbing and as much electrical work as possible myself.

As we are going to have to submit plans for Building Regulation approval and a large fee for the inspections, is there any reason I can't carry out 1st and 2nd fix myself for all electrical work ?

Let's get this staight: The introduction of Part P does not mean you can't do your own wiring - it hasn't changed the law in that area at all. What is has done is introduce extra things that you may have to do, such as notifying Building Control. You have submitted plans to BC, did they include the electrics? If so, then you have complied with Part P, and paid for BC to inspect the completed project, *including the wiring*. Who does the work is none of their business, as long as it is up to standard and passes their inspection, it's OK.

If the plans you submitted didn't include the wiring (and plumbing?) then you may have a problem, and you may want to find a way to resubmit them including the electrics & plumbing. I have no idea what the process is, when you change your mind about plans after you have submitted them, but there must be a way to deal with it as buildings are rarely constructed exactly as planned, because life's not that simple!

I am planning on replacing our existing fuse board with a new larger capacity one anyway, I would get an electrician to do this and make the final conenctions to the board.

I presume this wasn't included on the plans? Shame! You will either have to get a Part P registered electrician to do it, or submit another set of plans for this job, which would mean another fee to BC.

I have done a number of electrical installations within my house in the past and believe I am more than competent to do this. If I am unsure I always seek advice.

Irrelevant to the legal position - 30-year-served electricians who are not Part P registered still have to get BC approval to install an extra socket in their own kitchen...

Are there any good books anyone could recommend that give guidance to meeting the IEEE regulations ?

The On Site Guide is probably a good place to start - it's what most professional sparkies use.

Cheers,

Howard

 

[Paul_Thomas]

Thanks Howard.

I have submitted plans to Planning which looks hopeful, I am still drafting up the Building Relation plans (hence all my questions all over this forum !)

I will obviously make them aware of the electrical and plumbing work including changing the board. (Does plubing work need to be notified to BC ?)

Is there any requirement to get it tested ? How about if we sell in a few years ?

My point on my abilities is that whilst I appreciate it doesn't change the legal position, it does mean that I am capable of doing it safely and following clear quidelines.

 

[HDRW]

Thanks Howard.

I have submitted plans to Planning which looks hopeful, I am still drafting up the Building Relation plans (hence all my questions all over this forum !)

Great! Looks like you can get it all covered by the one set of plans & fees.

I will obviously make them aware of the electrical and plumbing work including changing the board. (Does plubing work need to be notified to BC ?)

No idea - this is the electrics forum! I know you didn't have to at one time, because I replumbed my house 15-odd years ago, replacing everything from the stopcock upwards.

Is there any requirement to get it tested ? How about if we sell in a few years ?

Well the BC people have to satisfy themselves that it's been done properly, but that's their problem, not yours. The mooted introduction of a "House Handbook" that you have to hand over when you sell a house is still some way off, and not finalised, so who can guess what will be needed then?

My point on my abilities is that whilst I appreciate it doesn't change the legal position, it does mean that I am capable of doing it safely and following clear quidelines.

Great! Much better than the "I rewired a switch and replaced the wires at random, why doesn't it work" kind of question that crops up here

Cheers,

Howard

 

[Chris.J]

[quote="Paul_Thomas"

Is there any requirement to get it tested ? How about if we sell in a few years ?

[/quote]

When selling a property, you usually get asked by the buyers Solicitor something along the lines of "have any alterations/extensions been made; if so, please provide copies of the PP, & BC completion certs.etc"

 

[Qedelec]

Not wishing to Pee on your parade but being confident to do electrics and being competent are not the same in eyes of the law.
Being Competent requires knowledge of electrical installations, adequate and calibrated test equipment and the detailed knowledge to use it.

As an Approved Contractor I would not be willing to sign off a non-professionals work, its my neck on the block and my insurance you would be using.
You may be able to get a local electrician to oversee your work but don't hold your breath.

 

[Paul_Thomas]

As I am understanding it, the Building Control department are responsible for inspecting the work afterwards, therefore no testing actually needs to be done ?

What would an Electrician need to check ?
If I left all face plates and light fittings unscrewed and floor boards off in relevant areas so that all cabling could be seen (apart from where it is behind wall coverings) and then got an Electrician to make off the tails into a new board when he changed it wouldn't that be sufficient ?

I am considering ordering a book on the IEE Regs to ensure that I follow them correctly, I presume they are mainly talking about cable sizes and protection, location of electrical equipment (bathrooms etc), ensuring things are wired correctly.

Would you inspect it and sign it off if all of it was visible and done to a good standard ? (Afterall what happens if you have to check existing buildings ?)

 

[Qedelec]

As I am understanding it, the Building Control department are responsible for inspecting the work afterwards, therefore no testing actually needs to be done ?

There you go making assumptions.

What would an Electrician need to check ?

Oh nothing much, just Continuity of conductors, Insulation of conductors usind 500V@1mA, resistance of CPC and phase conductors, Polarity of circuits, switches in phase conductor of circuit, Ze of each circuit, Trip time of RCD's to name a few.

If I left all face plates and light fittings unscrewed and floor boards off in relevant areas so that all cabling could be seen (apart from where it is behind wall coverings) and then got an Electrician to make off the tails into a new board when he changed it wouldn't that be sufficient ?

Not for me it wouldn't

I am considering ordering a book on the IEE Regs to ensure that I follow them correctly, I presume they are mainly talking about cable sizes and protection, location of electrical equipment (bathrooms etc), ensuring things are wired correctly.

That would be a start, do know how to design a circuit to conform to Maximum Earth Loop Impedance

Would you inspect it and sign it off if all of it was visible and done to a good standard ? (After all what happens if you have to check existing buildings ?)

Existing buildings get a PIR which is not sufficient for a new installation.
There are some subbies I wouldn't sign off, and they are time served.

 

[HDRW]

Not wishing to Pee on your parade but being confident to do electrics and being competent are not the same in eyes of the law.
Being Competent requires knowledge of electrical installations, adequate and calibrated test equipment and the detailed knowledge to use it.

No, being part of a "Competent Persons Scheme" requires those things, being competent only needs knowledge to do what you are doing, competently. The Government can't change the language by passing laws! A time-served electrician is competent, without being a member of any scheme.

As an Approved Contractor I would not be willing to sign off a non-professionals work, its my neck on the block and my insurance you would be using.
You may be able to get a local electrician to oversee your work but don't hold your breath.

So what happens when you ("one", not you personally) go the route of getting BC approval for a wiring job, do the job properly (competently!) and then get BC to inspect it? Either BC have to use an electrician to do the inspection/sign off, that you say you wouldn't do, or they have to inspect it themselves as surveyors who are not specifically electrically trained, and certainly not members of a "Competent Persons Scheme"! And that is fully legal, in compliance with Part P...

Cheers,

Howard

 

[Adam_151]

After more than four and a half years, I think his extension will have been built by now