# How to sell a boiler II

#### bernardgreen

I'm saying your test will be meaningless.

Anything and everything challenging is meaningless to a person with a closed mind.

#### Dan Robinson

Anything and everything challenging is meaningless to a person with a closed mind.

Yes, we've noticed.

#### bernardgreen

Reviving this thread in case anyone has discovered the secret of how a boiler can produce more energy that there is in the gas it consumes.

The publication

has been talked about in another forum. extreme being the correct word.

Rumour has it that the boiler can achieve about 98% in its optimum operation mode ( believed to be when heating cold water ) and that the extra 24% is produced by cooking the test results.

It is mathmatically possible that cooking the test results will produce a false figure for "seasonal" efficiency.

The secret lies in the maths used. Or does it ?

#### PullerGas

Reviving this thread in case anyone has discovered the secret of how a boiler can produce more energy that there is in the gas it consumes.

The publication

has been talked about in another forum. extreme being the correct word.

Rumour has it that the boiler can achieve about 98% in its optimum operation mode ( believed to be when heating cold water ) and that the extra 24% is produced by cooking the test results.

It is mathmatically possible that cooking the test results will produce a false figure for "seasonal" efficiency.

The secret lies in the maths used. Or does it ?

Damn, if only Dutch was my first laugage!! Oh for the life of a Google Warrior & PITA Mod.

#### AGAS

has been talked about in another forum. extreme being the correct word.
well a link would be good as we don't know what your impression of extreme is do we

122% FFS's

#### Steelmasons

Reviving this thread in case anyone has discovered the secret of how a boiler can produce more energy that there is in the gas it consumes.

The publication

has been talked about in another forum. extreme being the correct word.

Rumour has it that the boiler can achieve about 98% in its optimum operation mode ( believed to be when heating cold water ) and that the extra 24% is produced by cooking the test results.

It is mathmatically possible that cooking the test results will produce a false figure for "seasonal" efficiency.

The secret lies in the maths used. Or does it ?
Hey Bernard , join the combustion chamber and I'll go through the maths with you.
I'm sorry but the forum rules forbids any advise on gas works.

#### bernardgreen

Hey Bernard , join the combustion chamber and I'll go through the maths with you.
I'm sorry but the forum rules forbids any advise on gas works.

You know that I cannot join the CC as I am not GasSafe registered, but explaining the maths used to market an appliance is not advice on gas works. If you think it is then giving advice on which boiler a person should choose is also gas related advice and therefor should only be given to people who are in the CC.

well a link would be good as we don't know what your impression of extreme is do we

That forum is a closed, e-mail based discussion group.

In this context "extreme dummheit" ( extreme stupidity ) is applicable to any claims which defy the laws of science.

#### AGAS

That forum is a closed, e-mail based discussion group.
ye you would say that wouldn't you

H

#### Dan Robinson

So how does an independent test house cook the maths?

#### Steelmasons

So how does an independent test house cook the maths?
Stating efficiency figures over and above 100%.

#### Dan Robinson

But we don't know what the test was.

#### vulcancontinental

edit: just saving the mods some work and keeping the thread open.

#### bernardgreen

ye you would say that wouldn't you
Just saying as it is, the founder members communicated by post and telephone as there was no e-mail or internet in those days

So how does an independent test house cook the maths?
The test house can report genuine results of heat produced and where that heat went ( into water, into flue gases and lost into the test chamber ) along with the amount of gas consumed. The truly independent test house would not put any construct on the measured results.

But we don't know what the test was.
Researchers have set up test rigs where the volume and the rise in temperature of the water heated is known from which the quantity of heat transfered to the water can be calculated. The volume of gas consumed and the calorific value of the gas are known and from this the quantity of available heat is calculated. No test has ever produced results which suggested that more heat has been transfered to the water than was available from the gas consumed.

No heating appliance can produce more heat than the heat available in the fuel consumed. ( Heat pumps have heat from the fuels AND from the low grade heat source which they cool. They are rated as COP and not percentage ).

Claiming the impossible to achieve a sale could be seen as fraud.

#### Dan Robinson

Researchers have set up test rigs where the volume and the rise in temperature of the water heated is known from which the quantity of heat transfered to the water can be calculated. The volume of gas consumed and the calorific value of the gas are known and from this the quantity of available heat is calculated. No test has ever produced results which suggested that more heat has been transfered to the water than was available from the gas consumed

How do you know that is ALL the test parameters. If the same test is used for multiple manufacturers, the results are comparable. If the best result at the time of the tests creation was 100%, and subsequently, technology improved. Unless the test is redefined, then any results beyond what was originally possible will be greater than 100%.

You have not stated the exact nature of the test so as usual you are posting crap to inflate your own sense of importance.

The truly independent test house would not put any construct on the measured results.

Are you now claiming that no test can have its results displayed as a percentage? Have you seen the certificate FROM the TEST HOUSE? Or do you think the boiler manufacturers knock them up in Adobe?

#### DIYnot Local

Staff member

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