Improving water pressure on a private water supply??

[rocky_robin]

Hi. I've been on here for a while, but this is my first post!

My home is run off a private water supply, from a well at the bottom of my field. Its pumped using a water pump beside the filtration system outside.

Now, the house is an old croft, which has a traditional heating system (gravity fed) using the cold water tank (25gallon) and expansion tank (4 gallon) in a cupboard upstairs (no loft).

The hot water tank is in a cupboard on the otherside of the wall from the outside Oil boiler.

Now, the pump outside runs whenever the pressure drops below 2 bar and stops when it reaches 3bar.

If, say I were to flush the toilet then wash my hands in the sink beside it (Only 1 toilet in the house) and switch on the cold water tap, the water pressure reduces dramatically and actually stops filling up the toilet cystern until the cold water tap is switched off.

I've got the house in pieces at the moment, doing every room up so I was thinking of changing out the hot & cold water tanks for a Main's Pressure Hot water tank (Megaflo, for example). Will this improve my water flow for the cold water too, or will I need a larger pump outside to increase the water pressure initially?

I'm new to this plumbing stuff and loving it! I can get a registered plumber to install the system, of course.

Oh and I stay in Scotland (for the regulations side of things)

Thanks all!

 

[JohnD]

Sounds like the problem is your tap and cistern are fed directly from the pumped supply and the pump is rather weedy.

When I had a cottage with its own well, it had a cold water tank above, and instead of a ball-valve, it had a float-operated switch. So the pump in the well came on when the water level dropped. All supplies came from the tank. If the pump failed, or the well dried, I had a reasonable reserve up there.

With no loft, that might give you rather a gentle flow at the tap, but I'm sure it would be adequate to supply the WC cistern from the tank.

Is there any scope for building a platform for the cold tank any higher? mine used to have an open-to-the-roof construction, but it had a platform built up there for the tank.

I can't see that a mains pressure cylinder will be any use if you have no mains pressure.

 

[Agile]

The correct solution for your problem if you had enough space is to install an accummulator supplied from the pump and then feed your taps from that at 2-3 Bar. You will need a good sized one as they only supply about half their volume at a good pressure. Perhaps 200 li?

However a much cheaper solution would be to upgrade your pump so that it can give 20-30 li/minute flow rate and directly feed the taps etc.

However as you seem to have all the time in the world as an Englishman in Scotland, is waiting a few minutes for the cistern to refil all that important? You are not very likely to need to use it again for at least 10 minutes.

Tony

 

[JohnD]

I don't think he's English

 

[rocky_robin]

Thanks all for replying. Sorry been busy hence no reply from me!

Yeh I'm a Scotsman but certainly don't have much spare time!!

I've looked into the system a bit better now.

The water comes from the well, through the pump and filtration system, into the house where it goes up to the cold water tank.
From there it T-ees off to the kitchen tap / washing machine.
The cold water tank then feeds the bathroom/shower and also the Hot water tank.

The Pump itself is a DAB Jet 62M pump. See data sheet HERE

I'm not into pumps, etc, but how do I identify the flow rate? Is it simply taking the distance from the pump to the height of the cold water tank inlet (as that is the highest point)?

If I were to put in a Closed system, the Head so to speak will be reduced to the ground floor in the house, hence increaseing flow rate - am I right in saying that?


The pump also has a large tank attached (I guess that keesp the presure up) It's called a Varem, 20l capacity, 10bar MWP, Pre-charge 2 bar.


I would like to have a MIN flow rate of 18l/min at the shower head (approx 4.5m above the pump) Could that be possible?

 

[rocky_robin]

Anyone!?

 

[simond]

I suggest you get someone up there to measure the pressure, as your description does not give enough detail to give 100% sound advice.

The Varem vessel is a pressure damper on the pump to prevent cycling and shockwaves through the distribution side.

If your existing system is capable of supplying 2bar static at the shower outlet level, you could invest in a DualStream accumulator/unvented solution specced to give as much flow as you need. Effectively, this would give a 'hotel type' performance throughout.

The flow rate from the existing system would be become immaterial by adding this solution, other than sizing the accumulator such that the recharge versus usage metrics were correct.

 

[Balenza]

rocky robin wrote

If, say I were to flush the toilet then wash my hands in the sink beside it (Only 1 toilet in the house) and switch on the cold water tap, the water pressure reduces dramatically and actually stops filling up the toilet cystern until the cold water tap is switched off.

Then he wrote

The water comes from the well, through the pump and filtration system, into the house where it goes up to the cold water tank.
From there it T-ees off to the kitchen tap / washing machine.
The cold water tank then feeds the bathroom/shower and also the Hot water tank.

No mention of toilet flushing here.
Are you sure you know exactly what is supplied by the pump and which is supplied by the gravity CWT in the loft ??.

Ive only ever seen the pump supplying the kitchen tap in setups like these. The rest being gravity.

Simond wrote

If your existing system is capable of supplying 2bar static at the shower outlet level, you could invest in a DualStream accumulator/unvented solution specced to give as much flow as you need. Effectively, this would give a 'hotel type' performance throughout.

No need for an extra accumulator. Dont listen to simond. He is a part time salesman for GAH on this forum.
If the pump is at the bottom of a field , then who knows what kind of pipework is installed (15mmOD ) and over what kind of distance.
Either way it could make even the best of pumps seem like cr@ap.
And I know exactly what he is going to say next.

 

[doitall]

Just for a change I agree with simond

If the property was converted to an unvented system, an accumulator would make a very big difference. certainly it would provide a constant pressure/flow without the highs and lows normally associated with well pumps that are direct fed.

 

[Balenza]

Just for a change I agree with simond

If the property was converted to an unvented system, an accumulator would make a very big difference. certainly it would provide a constant pressure/flow without the highs and lows normally associated with well pumps that are direct fed.

You wouldnt get near my place with that idea Doitall. I assume your a diyer also.?
My neighbour has a large accumulator connected up to an unvented cylinder and its crap.
The digger is pulling in shortly to upgrade the mains.
Go back to your stilsons you great ape.

 

[doitall]

Just for a change I agree with simond

If the property was converted to an unvented system, an accumulator would make a very big difference. certainly it would provide a constant pressure/flow without the highs and lows normally associated with well pumps that are direct fed.

You wouldnt get near my place with that idea Doitall. I assume your a diyer also.?
My neighbour has a large accumulator connected up to an unvented cylinder and its rubbish.
The digger is pulling in shortly to upgrade the mains.
Go back to your stilsons you great ape.

No doubt you installed it for him, which says it all.

If the well pump is 2bar + an accumulator will hold a constant delivery without any problems.

 

[Balenza]

Doitall wrote

No doubt you installed it for him, which says it all.

No, Im a diyer stating my findings.

 

[Balenza]

Doitall wrote

If the well pump is 2bar + an accumulator will hold a constant delivery without any problems.

Yes, providing the accumulator is fitted to the pump set which is normally the case and the pipes are sized accordingly to the point of use.
Its no use having an accumulator fitted 500m from the pumpset with 15mm pipe snaking up the field with about 2L min dribbling from the end.
The accumulator will be depleted very quickly unless its very big or the installer has snaked more 15mm pipe around the property in which case your accumulator will be pretty much useless anyway.

 

[doitall]

Doitall wrote

No doubt you installed it for him, which says it all.

No, Im a diyer stating my findings.

Perhaps you should state you're findings on things you know something about then instead of rubbishing something you obviously know nothing about.

 

[Balenza]

Doitall wrote

No doubt you installed it for him, which says it all.

No, Im a diyer stating my findings.

Perhaps you should state you're findings on things you know something about then instead of rubbishing something you obviously know nothing about.

Perhaps it was you who installed the system for my neighbour.?
And anyway what makes you think diyers are stupid ?.
And if I remember correctly you rubbished accumulators on a previous thread.