Installing cooker hood and new cooker.

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Hello all,

Currently I have 4 double sockets and 3 single sockets in my kitchen (all on the main ring). One of the double sockets is already situated near to where my new cooker and cooker hood with be placed.

The cooker hood requires Live (brown) and Neutral (blue) connections and the cooker requires a double-pole control unit (min 32A).

What would be the best way to wire the cooker and the hood?
Can I opt to stick a plug on the end of the wire for the cooker hood? (but I guess this will look tatty as the flex will be dangling).

And regarding the double-pole control unit.... can a spur be taken off the double socket for this??????

Your thoughts please.

Cheers,

Nagsy
 
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If it's an electric cooker (not a gas hob) then you can't connect it to the ring main. It takes a lot of current and needs its own circuit run in a thick cable and its own 'fuse'.

Does your kitchen not have an electric cooker point? They mostly do. Even if it isn't in quite the right place it might be possible to move it.

My refernece to a gas hob, is that if you have one of them, and an ordinary (not a range or double) electric oven, the oven can usually be run of the ring main.

From reading your question (not trying to be rude) i think you need to consult a qualified electrician, ask for a price to provide a cooker supply and FCU for the hood, and tell him that you will need an Installation Certificate (he will know what this means and needs to be registered to do it). If he mumbles anything about not doing a certificate, or it costing extra, this is a Bad Sign and you should try someone else.
 
Hi,

I do not have a cooker point in my kitchen at present, and its a gas cooker that I'm having fitted - range type.

Cheers,

Nagsy

JohnD said:
If it's an electric cooker (not a gas hob) then you can't connect it to the ring main. It takes a lot of current and needs its own circuit run in a thick cable and its own 'fuse'.

Does your kitchen not have an electric cooker point? They mostly do. Even if it isn't in quite the right place it might be possible to move it.

My refernece to a gas hob, is that if you have one of them, and an ordinary (not a range or double) electric oven, the oven can usually be run of the ring main.

From reading your question (not trying to be rude) i think you need to consult a qualified electrician, ask for a price to provide a cooker supply and FCU for the hood, and tell him that you will need an Installation Certificate (he will know what this means and needs to be registered to do it). If he mumbles anything about not doing a certificate, or it costing extra, this is a Bad Sign and you should try someone else.
 
I have a 'thick cable' (with own fuse, black and red wires only) that previously was used for an electiric shower - can the electrician use this? It is slightly longer than required but I am hoping this can be increased in length - is this possible?

Thanks,

Nagsy


JohnD said:
If it's an electric cooker (not a gas hob) then you can't connect it to the ring main. It takes a lot of current and needs its own circuit run in a thick cable and its own 'fuse'.

Does your kitchen not have an electric cooker point? They mostly do. Even if it isn't in quite the right place it might be possible to move it.

My refernece to a gas hob, is that if you have one of them, and an ordinary (not a range or double) electric oven, the oven can usually be run of the ring main.

From reading your question (not trying to be rude) i think you need to consult a qualified electrician, ask for a price to provide a cooker supply and FCU for the hood, and tell him that you will need an Installation Certificate (he will know what this means and needs to be registered to do it). If he mumbles anything about not doing a certificate, or it costing extra, this is a Bad Sign and you should try someone else.
 
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(reply to your original reply)

It's a gas cooker? Not electric? Then why do you say

"the cooker requires a double-pole control unit (min 32A). "

That's the sort of connection an electric cooker needs, not a gas one.

(reply to your second reply)

An electric shower will usually have a heavy load, so the consumer unit ("fusebox") sounds like it will have the capacity, and if the cable passes near your proposed cooker point, it may well be possible to re-use it.
 
Hi,

Yes its a gas cooker but the ovens are electric (belling 100DF) and in the installation guide it says that it needs a requires a double-pole control unit.

Th old shower cable is about two feet too small: can this be extened?

Thanks for your help.

Nagsy
JohnD said:
(reply to your original reply)

It's a gas cooker? Not electric? Then why do you say

"the cooker requires a double-pole control unit (min 32A). "

That's the sort of connection an electric cooker needs, not a gas one.

(reply to your second reply)

An electric shower will usually have a heavy load, so the consumer unit ("fusebox") sounds like it will have the capacity, and if the cable passes near your proposed cooker point, it may well be possible to re-use it.
 
Provided the shower cable passes within 2 feet of the cooker, it may be easy (subject to site conditions I can't see from here) because the cable will go to a switch, then a new, fairly short cable to the big cooker outlet (thes are usually positioned behind a cooker, but if yours is going to be a vast heavy range that won't easily move, it would be more convenient to have the outlet beside it) and then another short cable, not buried in the wall, from the cooker to the outlet. The switch will be to one side of the cooker so that you don't have to lean across the cooker to isolate it. Two feet aside is fine.

Your electrician will want to verify the thickness and condition of the cable, and the route it takes. The existing MCB will have been rated for the old shower and may need changing to suit the cooker. As the circuit is in a kitchen it needs to be tested and certificated. If the house wiring is old there may be faults that mean he needs to provide new cables/MCB/CU for the cooker circuit.

Doing the FCU for the hood at the same time will be fairly easy. If i were you I woud ask for the hood to have an FCU at worktop height (convenient to switch on/off) and a sunken flex outlet high up beside the hood (inconspicous, tidy, and easy to disconnect when the hood needs repair or replacement). It does not need a plug and socket.

If you are having certificated work done in your kitchen this is a good opportunity to have plenty of sockets and appliance switches fitted. It will work out more economical than adding more later, and you will only have to redecorate/retile once. Ban-all-sheds did a very helpful illustration of an ideal kitchen installation in another recent kitchen thread.
 
Hi again,

The consumer unit ("fusebox") is a 45amp one, the old shower cable running from this is 6mm. Can i use this cable to power my cooker (requires min 32Amps) or does it need to be 10mm cable?

Thanks again,

Nagsy

JohnD said:
(reply to your original reply)

It's a gas cooker? Not electric? Then why do you say

"the cooker requires a double-pole control unit (min 32A). "

That's the sort of connection an electric cooker needs, not a gas one.

(reply to your second reply)

An electric shower will usually have a heavy load, so the consumer unit ("fusebox") sounds like it will have the capacity, and if the cable passes near your proposed cooker point, it may well be possible to re-use it.
 
If the 45A refers to the consumer unit, and not to one MCB within in, then it is old and undersized. 45A is not enough to run your new cooker on top of anything except lighting. I doubt it would have been adequate for the shower. You need a new one, professionally fitted. You can get the kitchen stuff done at the same time.

If you can lay your hands on a digital camera, put up a pic of the consumer unit and its surroundings.
 
Sorry, maybe I did not explain correctly.
I have two fuseboxes - the main one is for the usual house electrics and the second one was solely for the shower and is a 45Amp one.

Pics to follow......

JohnD said:
If the 45A refers to the consumer unit, and not to one MCB within in, then it is old and undersized. 45A is not enough to run your new cooker on top of anything except lighting. I doubt it would have been adequate for the shower. You need a new one, professionally fitted. You can get the kitchen stuff done at the same time.

If you can lay your hands on a digital camera, put up a pic of the cosnumer unit and its surroundings.
 
Thanks. Could you stand back and take one of the whole installation, including the meter board, and where the big suppliers cable has a metal or plastic head on it? thanks.


p.s. and is that black sticky tape I can see, round one of the thick cables going into the 45A box?
 
Here you go...

http://www.call2talk.co.uk/images/FuseBox_all.jpg

Ta.

PS Yes, that does appear to be black sticky tape. it was like that when we moved in.

JohnD said:
Thanks. Could you stand back and take one of the whole installation, including the meter board, and where the big suppliers cable has a metal or plastic head on it? thanks.


p.s. and is that black sticky tape I can see, round one of the thick cables going into the 45A box?
 
Thanks. I am away for the rest of the weekend, but I think some of the guys will have some recommendations for you. :cry:
 
Well I'm back now and can give you some disheartening opinions.

Your consumer units/fuseboxes are pretty old now. That brown Wylex, with the bakelite cover and mahogany frame, has been obsolete a long time (I fitted my first White ABS Wylex 30 years ago, so I would guess it is older than that).
Fusebox1.jpg
Although they were very popular after the war, and no doubt good at the time, the switch does not carry many amps (and is probably worn out by now) and the terminals inside, especially the earthing block, is too small for todays standards. It may also have rewirable fuses, which are frowned upon now, and rather troublesome if you ever have one blow.

The arrangement of main earths looks suspect from here, though of good size, and the meter tail with sticky tape is worrying - this might have been put on to cover damaged insulation.
Fusebox2.jpg
That tail will be fused at 80 or 100Amps, and has no switch to turn it of in case of probs. The 45A CU is not as old, though I think I can see signs of overheating on the fuse carrier?

The rest of the installation is rather old and untidy (I'm not blaming you)
FuseBox_all.jpg
and I believe there is now a requirement for a fireproof barrier between the gas meter and the electric meter; there should certainly be a bigger gap than I can see between the brown consumer unit and the pipe beneath it.

If the bits we can see are old and scruffy, it's a fair bet that there are other aspects that also need attention. In an old house you usually find there are nowhere near enough sockets, main and supplementary earthing are poor, lampholders are cracked with heat and age, switches and sockets are loose and worn, and often you will have metal switches or lighting fittings with no earth.

If you have recently moved in, and are spending money on the house, you should be thinking about renewing the electrics rather than patching them up. That means you will need a qualified professional to replace the old boxes with a nice new consumer unit, I'd suggest a split-load 12-way, you'll be surprised at how easily you fill it with circuits, and how little extra a big one costs compared to a little one. Getting a professional in also means he will test your existing circuits before re-connecting them, and although there may be scope to re-use some of the old circuits, if money is really tight, you will get a better job, really, by replacing the old lot. It is possible to replace a CU yourself, but you will have to pay for testing and inspection, and unless you are skilled enough to do everything right first time, it may end up costing you more.

Looking on the bright (!) side, the advantage of doing it now is that as you work through the house decorating and refitting, you will be covering up the new chases and decorating round the fittings, this is much better than having to chop them out and mess up your new tiles wallpaper and flooring.

How do you feel now? :cry:
 

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