Kitchen....Part P...!

[greglebon]

We have just had our kitchen / dining room wall knocked out.

The work has been notified, and inspected, etc....

I have researched electrics (downloaded Part P, etc..) extensively, trying to sus out what I can and cannot do LEGALLY.

I have come to the following conclusions: PLEASE corect me if I'm wrong on anything!

I can get the local electric authority (or a qualified electrician?) to fit a circuit breaker between my meter and CU.

Then, I can notify my local council that I intend to fit a new CU / ring main / re-wire my whole house, etc......

They will then send an inspector round at various stages (just as they did with the building work).

I can do all the electric work myself (following the "recomendations" in the Part P document)

I must point out, I am NOT a qualified sparky, but have been working in the electronics industry for 20 years, and am certainly capable of reading Part P and following the guidelines.

As long as the work I do conforms to the regs and the final inspection/test checks out, all should be ok..?

BAS on this forum points out that it is not ILLEGAL to do your own work, (even though my local council's letter RE: the recent building work does state that "all electric work MUST be designed, installed, and tested by a qualified electrician to Part P"......Illegal statement, BAS?)

It seems to me that Joe Public is being led to believe that it is against the law to do any electric installation in your own home, but surely it is not a law, merely a case of bringing electrical work under some form of (increased) regulation?

I am perfectly capable of fitting a new consumer unit and ring main in my kitchen: I would never carry out work that would endanger my family: it will be be done by the (Part P) book..!

As I said above, any comments are welcomed!

 

[Spark123]

Part P only has one requirement, "P1 Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury. " The rest of the SI babbles on about work notifiable to LABC or not. As you already know the work you are doing is notifiable so this is not an issue.
It does not state that the work must be designed and carried out by an electrician, although this might help in proving compliance with the above. The favoured method to work to in Britain is BS7671 (aka IEE regs) which although in itself in non-statutory, but can be used to show compliance with a statutory document i.e. Part P.

 

[Pensdown]

I can get the local electric authority (or a qualified electrician?) to fit a circuit breaker between my meter and CU.

Because this work involves removing the supply fuse it should be done by you DNO. However, in this changing world it's quite common for sparks to carry out these works.

Then, I can notify my local council that I intend to fit a new CU / ring main / re-wire my whole house, etc......

Thats correct

They will then send an inspector round at various stages (just as they did with the building work).

In theory yes....in practice maybe. For a CU change there is not much to see until the works are complete.

I can do all the electric work myself (following the "recomendations" in the Part P document)

Thats also correct. You will also need to do the works in accordance with BS-7671.

As long as the work I do conforms to the regs and the final inspection/test checks out, all should be ok..?

Thats also correct. Your LABC may only issue a building works completion certificate and not an electrical certificate.

BOS on this forum points out that it is not ILLEGAL to do your own work, (even though my local council's letter RE: the recent building work does state that "all electric work MUST be designed, installed, and tested by a qualified electrician to Part P"......Illegal statement, BOS?)

BAS is correct. Your LABC maybe talking about "self certification". Anyone can design a house, build a house or wire a house as long as the design and the works meet the relevant regs.

It seems to me that Joe Public is being led to believe that it is against the law to do any electric installation in your own home, but surely it is not a law, merely a case of bringing electrical work under some form of (increased) regulation?

Thats because the average Joe Public doesn't do as you have done - read the regs.

I am perfectly capable of fitting a new consumer unit and ring main in my kitchen: I would never carry out work that would endanger my family: it will be be done by the (Part P) book..!

And if you need any help.....you know where to post your questions

 

[securespark]

 

[dingbat]

...my local council's letter RE: the recent building work does state that "all electric work MUST be designed, installed, and tested by a qualified electrician to Part P"....

If this a verbatim quote from your LABC then they are cabbages. There is no such thing as a Part P qualification. There is, however, a requirement, under BS 7671 and the Electricity at Work Regulations for the work to be carried out by a 'competent person'. By definition, such a person has the necessary knowledge, experience, skills and equipment to carry out the work safely and to the required standards.

If you doubt your competence you are not competent.
If you don't have access to and/or don't know how to use the correct test equipment you are not competent.
If you do not know how to fully complete an installation certificate you are not competent.
If you do not have access to and understand the current edition of the wiring regulations you are not competent.
If you believe that...

the (Part P) book

...tells you how to comply with BS 7671 you are not competent.
If you blithely believe that a consumer unit change is a simple job then it is highly likely that many of the above statements apply to you. In fact replacing a consumer unit is so far beyond the capability of most DIY-ers (and quite a few so-called electricians) that it should be illegal!

You may earnestly believe that you will not place your family in danger, but unless you fully understand what you are doing there is a risk that you may do just that.

Please, before you make a start, before you disconnect a thing, make sure you actually understand what you need to do.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is, however, a requirement, under BS 7671

Which, however desirable, is not a legal requirement

and the Electricity at Work Regulations

Which of course do not apply here, as this is not a place of work.

for the work to be carried out by a 'competent person'. By definition, such a person has the necessary knowledge, experience, skills and equipment to carry out the work safely and to the required standards.

Who decides/defines what is "necessary" in any of these areas?

If you doubt your competence you are not competent.

Does the OP doubt his competence? I do hope you aren't arguing against people checking things with other sources of expertise on the grounds that any such checking must demonstrate doubts.

If you don't have access to and/or don't know how to use the correct test equipment you are not competent.

When it comes to rewires and CU replacements, agreed.

If you do not know how to fully complete an installation certificate you are not competent.
If you do not have access to and understand the current edition of the wiring regulations you are not competent.
If you believe that...

the (Part P) book

...tells you how to comply with BS 7671 you are not competent.

Ditto, ditto and ditto.

If you blithely believe that a consumer unit change is a simple job then it is highly likely that many of the above statements apply to you. In fact replacing a consumer unit is so far beyond the capability of most DIY-ers (and quite a few so-called electricians) that it should be illegal!

No it shouldn't.

 

[Pensdown]

In fact replacing a consumer unit is so far beyond the capability of most DIY-ers (and quite a few so-called electricians) that it should be illegal!

As long as the supply can be isolated IMO a CU change is quite straight forward assuming the cables are long enough. If the works are done via the LABC they should be doing the testing so there is no need for competence in that area.

Regarding the regs, there are only a hand full that are relevant for a CU change and they have been covered here many times.

I don't profess to know every regulation on every aspect of the electrical industry but that does not make me incompetent. As and when the need arises I either read up on the specific rules & regs that apply to the works or I ask someone.

 

[greglebon]

Just updating things...

Thanks to the mine of information available on this forum, scrutinising Part P document, and referring to BS7671, I have decided to basically rewire the whole house, as our current installation is basically quite poor...

For example, the tails to the CU from the meter are basically a pair of T+E cables!!! (They have functioned OK for x years, though).

TBH, I'm surprised the EDF engineer did not refuse to connect them up again, following his replacing our Key meter with a standard meter..(but he DID fit it !)..

So, I filled out the completion form for the kitchen, WITHOUT altering the existing ring main( ), and got the inspector round to sign off the kitchen as completed.

I asked him directly "Say I wish to re-wire the house myself in, say, 6 months time, how would I go about this: I've been told I CAN do the work myself as long as I notify you prior to starting the job?"

He begrudgingly replied that yes, I can do the work myself, It will cost me £100 + VAT at the start of the job, and they would get the work inspected on completion, but that would be AT THEIR COST, not mine (wonder how long before they plug this loophole?).

Now, as the inspection fee is fixed, I basically need to include as much work under this one job as possible, so it will all be signed off in one go, hence doing the whole house..!!

 

[gingervit]

Too many times seen people change a old wylex board with summat they got from scr**fix and then wondered why breakers start popping. A periodic is almost a must before you change the board to test all circuits coming from it. Of course you will be able to check if all the correct earthing is done and the right size, recognise the type of incoming arrangements are for the completion form, recognize any deviations from the regs in the rest of the installation.....need I go on?
yes, I am not saying that you are not competent I myself am also an electronic engineer, but domestic and commercial wiring is just a different kettle of fish entirely. Thats why sparks go to college for 4 years to get a load of qualifications to be told they cannot wire their own house 'cos they're not part p registered!
Little knowledge is dangerous, in this game, little knowledge is potentially fatal.
part P has made people think as long as they comply with the part P form ( thanks two jags) they can do it. Having rewired a burnt out shell of a house, I think not
Sorry if this seems like ranting, but I have seen too many horrors since part P came in, been asked to certify things. They wander sometimes why I wonder off doubled up with laughter.....
Best of luck with your endevours