Legionella

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by anjme, 15 May 2017.

  1. anjme

    anjme

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    Below is a copy of a paragraph taken from a Legionella risk assessment given to a landlord I work for:

    "If the tank is to remain it will need to be brought up to WRAS standards and inspected/cleaned annually which could be more expensive than fitting a new combi boiler."

    It is a domestic property with a traditional galvanised tank and un-lagged copper cylinder.

    Obviously tenant safety is important but I was hoping that someone on here could clarify if it is now a legal requirement that a landlord must upgrade an older style hot water system .

     
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  3. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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  4. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    Need more information on the property. Galvanised cisterns are not going to be in a very good condition by now, and can be a monumental ball ache to get rid of, most get left in the corner of the loft when a plastic one is fitted to replace them.

    The lagging of the cylinder is irrelevant. It is the temperature it is heated to that is key.
     
  5. Sounds like sales talk,

    anjme,you work for a landlord,please can i ask what do you do ?
     
  6. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    I can think of one or two on my clients where it would be the case that changing the cistern rather than just disconnecting the lot and fitting a combi would be more expensive - ex council flats with the cisterns entombed in cupboards on stair wells. It is the whole job cost of removing, remaking and redecorating these cupboards that escalates an otherwise simple job.

    In fact, we have one where the F&E is Galv and is leaking - that we are changing to preserve the old E-type boiler in the kitchen, but the cold water cistern is on notice - that is not coming out of where it lives.

    Ceilings there are concrete, and there are flats above the customers.
     
  7. anjme

    anjme

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    Rules&rulers

    I carry out all aspects of property maintenance in Leeds area.

    Why do you ask ?
     
  8. I only asked as legionella awareness has been around for a while now, as you know as you asked a question here about legionella and dead legs a while ago.
    You seem to use this site to carry out your trade asking lots of various questions (1 below),you are a qualified person and should know how to access reference material.

    Baxi 51/5 BBU
    Just replaced pcb on this model boiler (as per MI fault finding chart) still having problems. I read a previous post from here that "it was best...
     
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  10. JohnD

    JohnD

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    tipping money down the drain. A insulating jacket will save pounds, and will carry on saving money indefinitely.
     
  11. anjme

    anjme

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    Rules&rulers

    It would be so easy to "bite" and engage in :
    "reason why this site exists"

    However. I have more productive, more positive things to do with my time.

    Thank you
    to the people who provided more helpful responses.
     
  12. Training i hope.
     
  13. A landlord has to make a Leigonaires assemnet before a new tenant moves in, and give it to them prior to the commencement of the tennancy. A combi boiler has a low risk as there is no standing water, whereas a hot water tank, and cold water tank both have standing water that can harbour Legionaires, but as Dan says, as long as it's heated to 60C to kill the bacteria, then the risk is eliminated on the hot side. So the next question on the assesment, would be if the cold water tank then fed the bath.

    Obviously the tank should be lagged as part of the energy efficiency requirements, and without that, the temperature in the tank could fall below the required temp to kill the legionalla bacteria (if there are any) but there are no other requirements that I can think off.

    There are no legal requirements for the landlord to actually replace anything, only to manage the risk, and inform the tennats if there is one.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 16 May 2017
  14. dilalio

    dilalio

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    It's also important to note that CWSC/T's are also lagged to stop the contained water rising to levels promoting legionella bacteria growth - during hot weather in a loft space that is fabricated as a "cold roof".
     
  15. Madrab

    Madrab

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    Needs to be noted that legionella can live in old cold water cisterns, especially ones that aren't Bylaw 30 compliant and that aren't piped correctly, so it's as prevalent for the CWSC as well as the HW cylinder.

    Edited for some shocking spelling :whistle:
     
    Last edited: 17 May 2017
  16. wgt52

    wgt52

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    Sounds like a plumber did the assessment...

    Question - does the cold water tank supply bathroom cold taps and toilet? If they are can they be changed over to be mains fed? If they can then do that.

    As for the hot water;
    1. Insulate the cylinder
    2. if necessary, insulate the hot water piping.
    3. Turn the heat up to 60 degrees C (minimum).
    4. Once the cylinder is heated to 60C check that the temp on the most distant hot tap will reach 55C (quickly).
    Is the property a 'HMO'? If so then now all hot taps ought to have warning signs e.g. 'Caution – Very Hot Water'.

    (The turning up the water temp is a contradiction of a previous ruling where landlords had to turn the Hot Water temp down to 50 degrees C to prevent scolding...)
     
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