Lintel required for bungalow new internal doorway and over-slung support question.

Discussion in 'Building Regulations and Planning Permission' started by Dodgyrog, 16 Nov 2021.

  1. Dodgyrog

    Dodgyrog

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    Hi,

    Firstly am struggling to find info on whether a lintel is required above a new internal doorway in a non-load bearing clinker block wall in a 70's bungalow. If one is required it's going to be tricky to support one end as the doorway is at an intersection where another wall and door meets up with the edge of the new doorway - so there is nothing directly to rest the lintel on unless I have an extra long lintel to also straddle the adjoining existing doorway - which is currently just studwork above. So that's one question.

    Then on the intersecting clinker block running at 90 degrees we are taking out another section of that wall and this wall does support the mid span of the roof joists - so not a major load but to be sure I'd like to put a support beam that runs across the top of the joists and holds them from above - so that I don't have anything protruding down in to the hallway ceiling. Is that allowable?

    We're aiming to put a BC notice in as we feel it's a bit over the top to engage plan drawers / SE's etc. Attached sketch might help.

    Dark grey walls are clinkerblock - vertical is non load bearing, horizontal is supporting roof joists. Dotted section is the wall section being removed.
    Light grey walls are stud walls.
    Blue door is existing, red door is new doorway. The intersecting column where the 2 door frames meet is stud, not clinker block.

    Hope that makes sense. Thanks.
     

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  3. Dereekoo

    Dereekoo

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    Lintel would not be required above doors, just studding off top of door frame. Should be possible to place above beam support to rafters but actual supporting tension rods detail will need some thought
     
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  4. jks7492

    jks7492

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    What tension rods??
    Run the beam above the ceiling and support the joists on hangers...
     
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  5. Dodgyrog

    Dodgyrog

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    Thanks - I was hoping lintels would not be required but heard "rumours" that BC did want them these days "in case anything is built on top.

    Edit - I could be bloody minded and just place a loose lintel up in the loft over the gap heh heh.

    Re tension rods - I was thinking some heavyish section steel hangers that I could get made up - I'm in engineering / fabrication trade. They could be like a thick twisted strap that goes up over the new supporting beam, then down the side of the joists twisting through 90 degrees and then bolt / screw through joists?

    It can be as chunky as need be and doesn't need to be pretty as will just be sat in the loft.
     
    Last edited: 16 Nov 2021
  6. Dodgyrog

    Dodgyrog

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    Thanks - yep I assume Dereekoo was just referring to whatever was supported the joists - therefore being in tension, but there might be an angle I'm missing.
    As per my above post I'm thinking of making up some hangers from a twisted strap type arrangement.
     
  7. jks7492

    jks7492

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    How long is the opening that you want to support the ceiling over? I'd just run a doubled up 2x4 timber over the top of the ceiling joists - send it a couple of joists beyond the ends of the opening, and support the ceiling joists above the opening from joist hangers.
    You wouldn't need to get any bespoke hangers made up - standard joist hangers would be fine.
     
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  8. Dodgyrog

    Dodgyrog

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    Wall to wall gap is 1.2m and there are 3 joists that will require supporting. Plenty of room either side to extend - as you say, a couple of joists worth both ends should do. I mentioned making some hangers up as where they are exposed the joists are doubled up - 2 x 3" by 2", probably just where they are joined in the middle section, so wasn't sure I'd find the right hanger. Plus that section is a regular walkway in my loft, its boarded out and used as regular storage so I always feel better beefing things up - I'm always OTT on stuff !
     
  9. Dodgyrog

    Dodgyrog

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  11. jks7492

    jks7492

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  12. Dereekoo

    Dereekoo

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    Correct, just a general term basically stating your proposal is feasible, perhaps I should have said tension strap, or metalwork, or whatever:(
     
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  13. jks7492

    jks7492

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    Maybe i've got an overactive imagination - saw you mention rods and was thinking of something a bit Heath Robinson...
     
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  14. Dodgyrog

    Dodgyrog

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    There's enough tension in my life as it is :mad: :mrgreen:.

    Thank you both, a quick round trip and I've now got the hangers, nails and a couple of bits of fine looking C24 timber - going cheap at the local yard.

    A job for the weekend maybe though (y)
     
  15. ^woody^

    ^woody^

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    Lintel supports are not required unless there is actually something to support.

    It sounds like you may need to support any joists spanning that opening unless you can connfirm that they wont be over-spanned. So, if you don't want anything below the ceiling, you can install a timber binder above the ceiling joists, and nail/screw/strap the joists to it
     
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  16. Dodgyrog

    Dodgyrog

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    Cheers - typically I can't find it now but swore I saw something fairly authentic looking that inferred all doors in lower storeys / bungalows had to have lintels these days, in case something went on top later, but I'm happy now to stick the notice in with nothing up there and see what they say.

    I'm also more than happy to support those joists spanning the opening, even though they have been happily hanging in free air for a week now. Unlike the door lintel, the timber binder above is cheap and easy to install and will give me peace of mind.
     
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