loose bricks on chimney breast

[Tom.]

I'm installing a working cast iron fireplace in my front room, to replace the non-working decorative bedroom fireplace that somebody so thoughfully installed

The fireplace you see below is the one I'm removing. The one I'm replacing it with is much larger.

This is a good example of how old houses can often cost more than you think

You can see beneath the arch the previous owner has put a couple of courses of brick in, to make the existing fireplace fit, obviously these aren't load bearing, but if you look at the other pictures, you can see that 5-6 bricks are physically loose. The entire arch will move 1/4 inch or so if you give it a gentle push. Amazingly, the depth of the plaster on that breast is over an inch! No plasterwork in the loft on the chimney stack, so I wonder why they laid it on so thick?

So, I'm thinking all it needs is repointing, and then I can remove the 2 courses of bricks from underneath the arch, and carry on installing the fireplace? Whats the correct material to point it with (not that it really matters, because it will be plastered over, but I'd like to stick with tradition). The house was built in 1910. Oh, the bricks above the arch are loose as well, about 6-7 of them will also need attention.

 

[shaggy]

Tom, if that were mine with the bricks that loose I would find it easier to remove them and lay them again in cement mortar.

 

[Thermo]

no point in repointing if its got that much movement. Do as shaggy says, remove, clean off and rebed them in a cement mortar

Thermo

 

[tim00]

A number of issues:
1. There is a gas point to the left skirting. Given that you will have to probably re-new your skirting check if the gas supply is live and in lead or copper. If you are abandoning the gas fitting then have it cut off back at source - usually a tee. You dont want abandoned gas lines trailing thru your property.
2. A blg. regs approved hearth is reqd.
3. The chimney reqs. sweeping.
4. Is there an approved flue at the chimney stack terminal? I imagine that you have a gas flue in-situ at the moment.
5. What is the state of your stack brickwork and flaunching?
6. The bricks below the segmental arch req. removing, an angle iron may be taken across the opening, depending on the reqd. building opening,the same for building up the cheeks - it depends on the new surround.
7. Make sure that the surround is well sealed to the brickwork.
8. As suggested: any loose bricks to be removed, cleaned and rebedded.
9. Cut your plaster back in straight lines - level and plumb - it will help with the plastering.
10. Smoke test your flue and observe above - no leaks.
11. You req. far more drop cloths - its a messy job. Clear your furniture back or away.

 

[Tom.]

Thanks, hopefully I can answer some of your queries:

The gas point will be removed at the junction by a plumber friend.

The chimney was swept 3 years ago.

I don't think there is a flue anywhere in the chimney, I think its been pulled out by whoever installed this bedroom fireplace. There was a gas fireplace in the back room (which I replaced with a flueless model), but I never found a flue in that either.

I've smoke tested the chimney and there is no leakage anywhere that I can find. It was never capped or sealed up, so afaik the chimney is sound, no damp.

The stack is in perfect health, the chimney pots are cemented down onto the brick. Mind you, what problems should I be looking for on the chimney stack? Its just that the roof is old, and slates tend to get broken if you climb up there.

I will plaster the fireplace in where it meets the brickwork, and will also fill the area between the ironwork and the brick that you can't see. Behind the fireback will be stuffed full of a mix of rubble, sand, and cement, to stop the fireback warping. I was going to level this off with a downward slope into the top of the fireback.

So, I can just remove the bricks, clean them, and fix them back into place? I plan to use lime mortar.

So, I plan to number and then remove the bricks above the arch, and then remove the arch itself, then rebuild the arch (supporting the shape with a wooden frame). Once the arch is in place, I carefully reinsert the loose bricks above, and let it all dry? It doesn't look like the arch is bearing much of a load right now, so if I removed it and the loose bricks above (there are only 6-7), and had it all back in place within an hour, I reckon that would be ok.

With regard to the hearth, is it ok to install an iron surround around the edge of the carpet, around 2-3 inches tall? The tiles on the hearth right now are slate, underneath those is a solid concrete base (and I mean bloody solid, I had to drill through the back room hearth, and it was nigh on impossible).

 

[Tom.]

Just whacked all the bricks on the back, to bring them back in line with the rest of the breast, and they're all nice and tight now.

Think I'll just repoint the really loose bits of mortar, and run a trowel over the back of them (messy but effective).

 

[wonderdust]

3 coat plasterwork thats why its so thick....................when tradesmen took pride in their work and it was not about pricework getting in and out of a job as quick as poss!

andy

 

[tim00]

What do you mean by "no flue anywhere in the chimney" and "no flue" in the bedroom either? This could be a safety issue. There must be flue(s) if the chimney runs to a stack on the roof. Are you referring to the brickwork "the feather" that divides the flues?
Why do you need an arch? Angle iron will work fine as a lintol.
Blg. Regs. cover the hearth dimensions, what you suggest is wrong.
The fire-back and throating can be remedied when you have the brickwork out. Note: Blg. Regs. also apply to solid fuel fires.
Dont ever go on any kind of pitched roof without a roof ladder and tied-in access ladder.

 

[Tom.]

What I mean is, that the chimney doesn't appear to have any modern metal flue in like I've seen on my Dad's house for instance. Its just a brick tunnel, right the way up to the stack. The house has 4 main rooms, 2 downstairs, 2 upstairs.

Sorry if I sound ignorant, but I am in some ways, hence questions here

Here is a pic looking up the chimney from downstairs (the chimney in the preceding pics)

And here is a pic of the same chimney, but from the upstairs bedroom.

In each, the wall at the bottom of the frame is the side wall of the house (the wall at the top is the face of the chimney in the room) Both these go up to the loft, and meet with the chimneys from the back of the house, and then go through the roof to the stack. There are 4 chimney pots (2 sealed, the back room fireplace is flueless gas, and the back bedroom fireplace is sealed - my next job).

Are you suggesting that it requires some kind of lining? Its been swept clean (hardly any dust/soot comes down even in the strongest rain/wind), and looks sound (to my untrained eye). I've smoke tested it, and theres a good strong breeze goes through, with no leakage anywhere I can find.[/img]

As regards the arch, yes its not needed, but I don't like making changes just for the sake of simplicity. An arch is a more difficult construction, but its worked perfectly well for hundreds of years, and I don't see why I should knock it out and replace it with a steel lintle. I'm not having a go I'm just saying I don't always think modernisation is a good thing (don't get me started on PVCu).

The hearth, thanks for the clarification, at the moment its a concrete base throughout, with natural slate tiles on top, extending 12 inches out into the room. What do the building regs say? Its not a problem to put another row of tiles in there, and cut the carpet back.

And for the roof, I don't go up there, but the last time I had work done the roofer had to replace more slates that he broke while doing the repairs, than he came to repair in the first place The roof hasn't been done in 100 years.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tom.jeffs4/house/brickwork.jpg

I've done the brickwork by the way, please don't throttle me I'm no bricklayer! Its not pretty, but its rock solid, and won't be seen once plastered over. I used 5:1:1 sand:cement:lime.

Where can I get lime that doesn't require the use of cement? So I can use the traditional 3:1 sand:lime mix?

 

[wonderdust]

heres a link tom for the use of hydrated lime http://www.northwales.org.uk/jn/lime.htm

ask a builders merchants to get a bag in for you if they dont stock it

 

[Tom.]

Thats bloody great that is! Thanks - I'll use the massive bag of hydrated lime I have, and let it soak for a bit.