LPG/Gloworm xtramax- HELP!!!!

[MrsG]

Please can someone give us advice..stress levels approaching critical!

We are currently renovating our house and needed to replace the central heating system.
So after many quotes and deliberation we got plumber (plumber A) to install our central heating and boiler (a HUGE Gloworm xtramax HE)for us BUT we are on LPG and he had natural gas ticket only, but we arranged for a separate LPG plumber (plumber 2) to come round and commision the boiler (fine).

Everything went well rads in, boiler installed but not fired, up-bye bye plumber A (but not paid as yet).
Along comes plumber B and eventually gets the boiler going , but 2 hours after he's gone the boiler started to make very loud backfire type noise(quite scary if your stood near it!!) followed by what the boiler states as some kind of ignition prob,So we're on the blower to plumber B, he comes back, and thinks that it's a combustion issue and again eventually gets it going but after a few hours exactly the same thing happens again.

I'm at my wits end and worried that i'm about to pay out a huge amount of money for a boiler that isn't working as yet.

Any advice about any aspect of this would really be great.....

 

[simond]

Retrospective advice would be that Plumber A bought the boiler, but plumber B was expected to get it working.

From your point of view you are in a pickle because neither A or B supplied the boiler and warranted to get it working.

However, the problem from a purely technical perspective is going to be either the boiler or Plumber B. So get him back, and suggest he rings Glowworm up for advice if he's stumped.

 

[Agile]

Your boiler is a very good specification premix boiler.

The fault MIGHT be associated with the flue assembly and installation ( Plumber A ) or the set up and comissioning ( Plumber B ).

Its always better to have ONE person in charge of the job. That should have been the installer who should have subcontracted the commissioning himself.

Unfortunately householders always think they know better and are scared of being ripped off as they dont trust plumbers. The reality is that 9 out of 10 do a good job at a reasonable price and even the tenth just over charges a little. Its only 1 in 100 who do really fraudulent things like charging for new parts which are not needed or fitted.

I think the plumber A is probably very honest because he admitted he could not commission LPG. The plumber B is probably just not very experienced with premix boilers. They are relatively new and only about 1 in 50 engineers are very comfortable fault finding on them. For a start they need a flue gas analyser to set them up. Thats an expensive instrument with a tube, costing about £1000. Does plumber B have one? Most dont!

The industry is rather devided into installers ( most ) and repairers ( like me ). Only a very few are able to install and repair very well.

You should not worry because its just a matter of finding the problem. If neither A nor B can sort it out then you can call the manufacturer's service engineer. If its an installation/commissioning problem as I expect then that may be chargeable at about £100.

I would hope that you would ask our advice before you go docking money owed from A or B. We dont know either so can be totally impartial.

So far, I suspect that B is not very good at fault finding as he has spent so much time without apparently finding the problem. Even if A did not fit the flue correctly b should still have been able to diagnose that within an hour.

Tony

 

[bripl]

mrs g wrote

Along comes plumber B and eventually gets the boiler going , but 2 hours after he's gone the boiler started to make very loud backfire type noise(quite scary if your stood near it!!) followed by what the boiler states as some kind of ignition prob,So we're on the blower to plumber B, he comes back, and thinks that it's a combustion issue and again eventually gets it going but after a few hours exactly the same thing happens again.

instead of being patronizing and aloof about this tony read what the op said rather than critising a persons ability to use a fga and set up a premix boiler,if your backround was from a plumbing/ pipework discipline you would see it may have nothing to do with the boiler but the sys itself,some of us understand heating far more than you ever will

mrs g you need to check with plumber a that he has fitted an auto bypass, at least one rad has no trv and the controls are wired correctly,did plumber b leave you a print out of the combustion readings

 

[Agile]

Whilst I appreciate that your primary motive seems to be to criticise me rather than to assist Mrs G, the stated facts dont support what you are suggesting.

Surely if it was temperature/flow problem then firstly the boiler would not indicate "an ignition problem" and secondly plumber B would not state that "its a combustion problem"?

I have to base my advice on the facts stated by Mrs G. She has been quite clear and consistant.

Tony

 

[penpusher]

Would I be missing something if I suggested that the boiler supplied is NG and should have a conversion kit installed to run LPG?

 

[gas4you]

I would get plumber b back once more to double check he has adjusted everything for lpg. If he can confirm this, hopefully by leaving a print out from his fga, then I feel it is time for a call to Glow Worm under warranty, as it could be an intermittent ignition problem that only occurs when things have heated up. It sounds as though the ignition is not sparking at the correct time, giving a build up of gas before it finally 'explodes' into action.

Usually sparking should occur very slightly before the gas valve opens. From what you have indicated I dont think it is going to be a problem with plumber a's installation.

 

[Agile]

Penpusher. You mean a set of different jets to change?

 

[bripl]

not critising you tony just highlighting how you come across as arrogant pompous etc etc if the op would let us know what codes if any are coming up we can advise,by the way tony the boiler requires 500litres an hour through the heat ex not to overheat
f1
f4 are the fault codes for combustion faults

f5 is overheat

the op has stated the boiler runs for a couple of hours prior to the noises so that is what i have based my reply on,

 

[penpusher]

yes agile, or am I being really thick? Was a big night last night so hangover is clouding my judgement.....

 

[bripl]

Penpusher. You mean a set of different jets to change?

you need to bone up on your boilers tony,xtramax only requires adjustment on gas valve

 

[penpusher]

thanks bripl, will go and hide in my corner til headache subsides.

 

[MrsG]

The fault with this boiler is showing F1 .However before it does it's chitty bang bang impression there is a ticking noise, is it likely to be an ignition thing with a build up of gas then?Or a problem with the mix of gas?
Plumber B did take the flue to bits ,reassembled it and he also did check the flue gases with one of those probe thingies.

 

[Dan Robinson]

When you say chitty chitty bang bang - could a coffee perculator be more accurate?

If so then I suspect a problem with condensate drain/syphon; sorry not familiar with these boilers so I don't know that their arrangment is - I'll have a squize at the destructions...

 

[MrsG]

No, it's most definitely a bang and a very loud one at that.
Reckon i'll follow the advice given and speak to plumber B.......again