New Extension - Cert for building Regs required

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Hi,
I've had a new extension built and I did the electrics myself. I spent a lot of time effort and care to ensure the wiring conforms to regs. I now need the work certifing for planning sign off. Howver, as I phone around sparkys I am being told that they can only be certify the work if the installation was performed by a qualified electriction?

Obviously their may be wise words bassed on hind sight and all that, but what is done is done. Can anyone give any words of advice of how I can get someone to come and check, test the circuit?
 
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If you were not planning to use a self-certifying electrician, then the electrics should have been notified as part of the Building Regs notification for the extension, and would probably have resulted in additional costs for the LABC to appoint an electrician to oversee/certify the electrics (at your expense). The BR application should have specified how the electrics were to be certified - if it did not, then your LABC will have assumed that a self-certifying electrician was doing the work and notifying via his scheme.

You will not find any electrician willing to certify the work that they have not either done themselves or at least supervised. So you are now at the mercy of your LABC. They may be happy to accept an EICR from a registered electrician. They may wish to appoint the electrician themselves (at your expense). You need to talk to them, only they can tell you what they require.

See also: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200137/how_to_get_approval/78/pre-site_approval/4
 
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I had a similar situation and the council accepted an EICR on the new parts.

In my situation there were no new circuits (extension of existing ring and lighting circuit) and the kitchen is not a ‘special location’ in England, so the work was not notifiable, however the BR guy would not issue the completion certificate without an electrical certificate.
 
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Been there with a customer a few years back who did all electric himself against my advice.
Eventually, after we were gone, he called a sparky and told him that I had done the wiring and left with money in my pocket.
The sparky felt sorry and checked everything out and issued a certificate.
Then another sparky I know came to hear the story and called me immediately asking why I started doing electric that I never touched unless when working as a labourer for an electrician.
The cheek of some people!
I'm not saying you should try the same trick and pretend to be a victim of a rogue builder, but if you don't mention names...
 
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I was told by LABC they would select an electrician/inspector to do an EICR and they would issue the completion certificate on the strength of the EICR.

My son objected and said my dad has a degree, I hope who ever you select will be better qualified. And the LABC inspector after looking at our test equipment relented and said he would accept my electrical installation certificate.

The LABC inspector seemed to have no idea was a C&G 2391 was, both my son and I have passed the exam.

“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;

There is no formal exam which defines an electrician, so if you can do the work, you are an electrician, so what you are saying you submitted the electrical installation certificate to the LABC inspector and he will not accept the certificate, so the question is why, what do they say is wrong with the certificate you submitted?
 
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... “qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1)
Regulation 3(1) of what? Are you perhaps talking about Section 3(1) of the legislation relating to private rented accommodation? If so, what is the relevance of that to this thread?

Kind Regards, John
 
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As above, EICR is your best route out. Problem with that (from building controls pov) is an EICR cannot show things like cables not in safe zones, any inaccessible junction boxes having maintenance-free terminals, that sort of stuff. So talk to them with your chequebook at the ready :)
 
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Regulation 3(1) of what? Are you perhaps talking about Section 3(1) of the legislation relating to private rented accommodation? If so, what is the relevance of that to this thread?

Kind Regards, John
Yes used definition from a law rather than regulation.
I spent a lot of time effort and care to ensure the wiring conforms to regs.
If this is the case, then he will have completed an installation certificate, if the LABC simply plug in their loop impedance tester and get same readings within reason, then this would show the installation certificate has been completed reasonably well, so one would have expected it to be good enough.

If however he has not completed the installation certificate then clearly he has not taken the effort to ensure it conforms with BS 7671 so it would be reasonable for a LABC inspector to want the work under his site safety control to be tested and inspected by some one he can trust.

When work is done under the LABC then the LABC is responsible for the site safety, so it is reasonable for them to ask for the paperwork for the work, and to check some of the readings.

Up to now I know of no court cases taking the LABC to court for not for filling their duty, however there have been some high profile cases for other county council services like the social services, so one can understand the inspectors wanting to cross all the t's and dot the i's.
 
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Yes used definition from a law rather than regulation.
That's what I presumed but, as I said, it came from a law relating to private rental properties, which are not what we are talking about here. Beyond that, I'm not aware of any other law which even mentions EICRs, let alone who may do them, or any regulation which specifies who may undertake ordinary EICRs, are you?
... If this is the case, then he will have completed an installation certificate ... If however he has not completed the installation certificate then clearly he has not taken the effort to ensure it conforms with BS 7671 so it would be reasonable for a LABC inspector to want the work under his site safety control to be tested and inspected by some one he can trust.
Do you understand what we are being asked about in this thread? As I understand it, the "he" to which you are referring was the OP himself/herself - and the fact that he/she (the OP) did not (probably could not, because of 'testing' issues) complete an EIC is the issue/problem we are being asked about.

Kind Regards, John
 
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Do you understand what we are being asked about in this thread? As I understand it, the "he" to which you are referring was the OP himself/herself - and the fact that he/she (the OP) did not (probably could not, because of 'testing' issues) complete an EIC is the issue/problem we are being asked about.
This does not seem to be the issue as it says
I spent a lot of time effort and care to ensure the wiring conforms to regs.
It clearly does not conform to regs if the EIC has not been completed.

I assumed like when I did some work in late parents house the LABC wants either a compliance certificate or an EICR done by some one of their selecting. The big difference was in my case because of location there was no question the electrics would need a compliance or completion certificate to cover them, so the way it was to be done was agreed before the work started, where is seems with @flibberflops the work would not automatically need notifying as he has not had the discussion with LABC until after completion.

The LABC with me were loathed to allow me to do my own inspection and testing, they wanted some proof that I had the ability, and seemed unaware of what a C&G 2391 was. But as you rightly point out there is nothing to say you must have a C&G 2391, or any other certificate to show ones skill.

So after the event all they can really do is confirm a sample of readings taken to show if within limits. We all know a loop impedance tester may have a reading of 1.30Ω but retest and it may well show +/- 0.05Ω to that reading, and I am sure you could like myself fudge up some results which look reasonable as the electricians mate in the Emma Shaw case did. However we would not as we would not want to end up in court if we got some thing wrong. So I can see the problem facing the LABC in accepting the EIC from some one who has no written qualifications, but that is the LABC's problem not @flibberflops
 
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This does not seem to be the issue as it says
... I spent a lot of time effort and care to ensure the wiring conforms to regs.
It clearly does not conform to regs if the EIC has not been completed.
I think you are somewhat 'splitting hairs' ('quibbling'?) and that you, like I, know what the OP meant by that statement, particularly since he/she then went on to say that the work now needed 'certifying'.

Is it not fairly clear that what the OP meant was that, of the three 'elements' of electrical work, he/she had "spent a lot of time effort and care" to ensure that the first two ('design' and 'construction') conformed with regs, but was now asking what could be done about the third ('testing''/'certification')? ... and, of course, there is no simple answer, unless (presumably not the case) he/she is able to undertake the required testing himself/herself, and thereby be able sign for all three 'elements' on an EIC.

Kind Regards, John
 
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I think you are somewhat 'splitting hairs' ('quibbling'?) and that you, like I, know what the OP meant by that statement, particularly since he/she then went on to say that the work now needed 'certifying'.

Is it not fairly clear that what the OP meant was that, of the three 'elements' of electrical work, he/she had "spent a lot of time effort and care" to ensure that the first two ('design' and 'construction') conformed with regs, but was now asking what could be done about the third ('testing''/'certification')? ... and, of course, there is no simple answer, unless (presumably not the case) he/she is able to undertake the required testing himself/herself, and thereby be able sign for all three 'elements' on an EIC.

Kind Regards, John
You are likely correct, I read 'certifying' as being the completion certificate. From memory one is permitted to get the readings from enquiry, so getting an EICR done with the readings and simply copying the readings onto the EIC I think would be permitted?
 
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You are likely correct, I read 'certifying' as being the completion certificate.
Indeed so -and, as I said, completing and EIC includes 'signing for' the inspection/testing of the relevant circuit(s) and completion of an appropriate Schedule of test results.
From memory one is permitted to get the readings from enquiry, so getting an EICR done with the readings and simply copying the readings onto the EIC I think would be permitted?
Hmmm. I was only aware of 'by enquiry' being acceptable in relay to supply characteristics (Uo, frequency, PFC and Ze), not the results of tests on circuits of the installation.

Are you really suggesting that one could get a third party to undertake the I&T and then find out from them ('by enquiry') what were the results of the inspection and testing, whereupon one would copy all that into the EIC schedule of results etc. If that were acceptable, would it not represent a massive 'loophole', which would mean that we would often have to explain that "it doesn't work like that" to an OP who had done work and was subsequently wanting to get it 'signed off'?

... or have I misunderstood you?

Kind Regards, John
 
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Did you get this resolved in the end?

Yes! Just to update, as suggested I phoned planning a claimed innocence. They said they would accept an EICR. It was a bit of a challange, the first 2-3 sparky's I called wouldn't do an EICR on work they hadn't done, but i eventually found someone who peformed an EICR. Got cert and gave it to planning. Completion cert was then issued.
 
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