New front door & frame - Sapele , Iroko or Oak?

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Hi,

I'm going to have a new front door installed. There is existing building work going on in the house at the moment and while the brickies are here I thought I'd have the door opening made larger and a larger door put in.

So the front door is going to be 3ft 3in wide and the frame will be custom made to fit with some glass in the side.

I've asked for some quotes from joiners shops that say they are happy to make doors & frames and the quotes vary wildly, even for the same wood type.

My issue is not with the cost, it's the wood type. Initially, I asked for european oak door & frame. Two joiners shops say they can use this wood, but another says they don't like using oak becuase it does not stop growing.

They have recommended Sapele or Iroko instead.

Are Sapele & Iroko a good alternative to oak? Any downsides?

Have to say, I had my mind set on oak, but I know nothing about hardwoods.

Thanks.
 
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Oak is more trouble as you aren't meant to use the common stains and varnishes. Will you be going for an oiled finish?

You can't use steel fittings as they stain it , but I expect you will be going for brass as it is an expensive door, I don't know if stainless screws stand up to the tannic acid but I suspect not.

Is it in an enclosed porch, or exposed to the elements?

Do you have a preference for the colour? Do you mind spoiling the planet by supporting the tropical hardwood trade?
 
I was planning on using Sikkens Cetol THB for the finish & yes, I'll be using brass door furniture.

The door is exposed to the elements,under a small porch overhang (2ft).

With regards to the tropical hardowood, I am lead to believe that the oak will be European & from sustanable plantations. The way Europe is expanding at the moment, this no doubt means that some small tribe will have to be relocated while my chippy axes their back garden, but so long as the door looks good on my house, I have no problem with this :)

What I'm trying to ascertain, is whether there is anything special about oak over Sapele or Iroko? I've asked for oak because I was always lead to believe that it was the best wood available in Britain. I suspect I could be wrong about this (just a layperson when it comes to hardwoods).

Thanks.
 
Iroko (or Kambala) comes from Tropical Africa, colours from yellowish to greenish to yellow-brown. Bit harder than European Oak and stable wood-type, has a specific substance in it that makes it harder to finish with oil or lacquer - drying time is much longer than normal

Sapele is reddish (also from Tropical Africa) resembling Mahogany. Softer than Iroko
 
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FiscoKing said:
Two joiners shops say they can use this wood, but another says they don't like using oak because it does not stop growing.

They have recommended Sapele or Iroko instead.
Piffle! Once a tree has been cut down the sap which keeps it growing stops flowing. The timber is then kilned and drying the wood to that extent kills it. Dead. So it can't grow any more.

FiscoKing said:
Are Sapele & Iroko a good alternative to oak? Any downsides?

Have to say, I had my mind set on oak, but I know nothing about hardwoods.
Yes and no. Sapele is much softer and has rowed grain which can lead to startling visual effects. Iroko is much harder than oak and because it is a naturally oily timber it is often used for joinery which will be subjected to hostile environments - anything from canal lock gates to harbour pilings.

JohnD said:
Oak is more trouble as you aren't meant to use the common stains and varnishes. Will you be going for an oiled finish?
Oak was also traditionally varnished, so what is meant by "common stains and varnishes"?

JohnD said:
You can't use steel fittings as they stain it , but I expect you will be going for brass as it is an expensive door, I don't know if stainless screws stand up to the tannic acid but I suspect not.
Better quality stainless steel fittings (i.e. architectural quality) will stand up to being in contact with oak - the problem often comes from low-price Chinese "stainless" screws and fittings which are barely more than mild steel with the bare minimum of chromium. Good quality stainless steel screws such as Spax will not be affected by the tannin in oak (and did you know that mahoganies and walnut also contain high levels of tannin?). Traditionally brass was used because it was available - stainless steel only appeared during WWI but stainless steel wood screws only became readily available to woodworkers during the 1970s. A further point about stainless screws is that they are much more brittle than mild steel ones and are therefore more likely to shear if over torqued. And they cost a heck of a lot more, too

FiscoKing said:
What I'm trying to ascertain, is whether there is anything special about oak over Sapele or Iroko? I've asked for oak because I was always lead to believe that it was the best wood available in Britain.
Oak is a traditional building material in northern Europe and is therefore sympathetic to the environment. European oak has a wide growing range although the yards I've dealt with seem to be buying mainly from either France or Hungary these days. What is special is that timber from a managed forest, such as a European plantation, is not going to be ripped out of a fragile eco system by slash and burn techniques of the sort employed in many African countries - so it depends on whether or not you have a conscience about your planet. In any case sapele looks really 1960s technical college or hospital doesn't it?

As to why a joinery shop would shy away from it's use I can think of two reasons - firstly oak is more expensive that either of the other two timbers (but presumably the end result would cost the same?) and secondly American oak coming into the UK over the last couple of years has been of ever decreasing quality and in some people's minds that seems to make all oak bad, which I find perverse

Scrit
 
If you like oak, if you want oak, then insist on oak. You are going to be disappointed with anything else.

The joiners you have spoken to who advise alternatives should be avoided. Oak is more difficult to work with as it harder and has a habit of unexpectedly splitting along the grain when being machined. An experienced professional joiner will not be phased by this, however.

As for oak being more expensive; well yes it is, but you are paying for it, so why should the joiner worry? I wish all my clients chose expensive woods - I would make more money!

You should have no problems with the Sikkens and brass fittings are ideal.
 

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