Pilk-K-Glass : How to tell which way round?

[Cohen]

Hello,

I've recently had the entire house fitted out with uPVC windows. When it was being installed I chatted to the guys on occasion whilst they were working and noted that the glass panels had a sticker telling them which side had to be in the inside as it were. I saw one being installed, the "edges" banged in, and then he pulled the sticker off - on the inside of course.

Today I decided to have a look around all the windows from the inside of the house. When it came to the window where I watched the guy install the glass panel and peeled of the K-sticker, I noticed that inside the frame on the right hand side I could read what had been printed on it. See picture A below...

On some other glass panels, I noticed that the writing on the same right hand edge was upside down, like in picure B below...

Q1. Does this mean that all the glass panels that are like picture B have been installed the wrong way round? ie the K surface is on the outside rather than the inside?


Q2. Another question, for the bathroom and front door + side panels I had privacy/"frosted" glass panels installed. On these glass panels, one sheet is the "frosted" one and the other is normal 100% clear. In my bathroom, the "frosted" sheet is on the outer most sheet of glass and and the text on the right hand side (looking from inside of house) is as in picture A. On my front door + side panels they are the inner most sheet of glass and the text appears as in picture B. I'm guessing that the "frosted" sheet should be the outer most one like the bathroom one, is this correct?

 

[skybluescooby]

Hi Cohen,
Can't answer your first question but as for your second,
I too have just had double glazing installed and upon reading your message i checked mine, the bathroom and en suite have the frosted on the outside with a clear pane on the inside where as the front door has the frosted effect on the inside and a clear pane on the exterior, Hope that helps

 

[biffvernon]

I don't think you can read too much into the writing on the label on the spacer in your units. It's pretty arbitrary which way up they go when the unit is put together. The installers probably got it right but I did notice a new build a few months ago where ALL the windows had their stickers saying 'this side to face indoors' on the outside of the building. There was either a very stupid glazier or someone was having a laugh!

If you haven't washed your windows with detergent yet you will probably be able to detect where the 'K' stickers were, especially if you huff a little mist onto the windows. The glue leaves a mark.

There exists an electronic hand-held detector that can tell which way round a window is. They cost about fifty quid but you may be able to borrow one from the window supplier if you hassle them.

 

[skybluescooby]

Hi Cohen,
I was speaking to a guy from a window installation company and he said all pilkington glass should face inwards as its the energy efficient side that must face indoors which explains why on the frosted glass, the smooth pane faces in and the frosted is on the outside

 

[Cohen]

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

biffvernon,

It's been a bit over a week since my windows were installed and in between now and then there's been a decent amount of rain. As such, I probably wouldn't be able to do breathing onto the glass trick on the outside. As for the inside, the guys cleaned it with glass cleaner as a finishing touch so that's then end of that idea As for the electronic detector, I'll try and see if any local glass suppliers have any.

skybluescooby,

So judging from the guy you spoke to it means both yours and my front door (+side panels) have been installed the wrong way round then! Time to get out a hammer and chisel

 

[biffvernon]

As such, I probably wouldn't be able to do breathing onto the glass trick on the outside. As for the inside, the guys cleaned it with glass cleaner as a finishing touch so that's then end of that idea

Maybe. I'm often frustrated at how persistant the label marks are. They even survive wiping with meths sometimes.

 

[skybluescooby]

No, If the frosted is on the outside and the sooth on the inside then this is correct so cross that one of the list,
By all acounts the one pane you watched go in is sited incorrectly and should be changed around.

 

[Cohen]

This is how my front door and its side panels are...

Outside fresh air -> clear sheet -> frosted -> inside house

You said yours are "the front door has the frosted effect on the inside and a clear pane on the exterior" which, assuming you didn't mistype, is the same configuration as what I'm describing just above surely

Anyway, the guy you spoke to said "the smooth pane faces in and the *frosted is on the outside*" and so mine, at least, are the wrong way round.


The one window I did watch get put in (Picture A above) was a clear normal non-frosted window and the only way I know that one was put in OK was that I saw the sticker being peeled off. The sticker was on the inside of the house, which is where it's supposed to be since on the sticker it said something to the effect of "P.K.Glass - place this side inside the house."

 

[munu3131]

I just phoned my installer about this. I wanted to know why the bathroom double glazing (K glass A rated) was installed with the plain glass inside and the frosted outside because the plain glass has a mirror effect, especially at night, and the frosted being outside may pick up more grime than if it was plain. They said that Pilkington put the energy efficiency coating on the plain glass, not the frosted glass and if you count the glass surfaces from 1 to 4 where 1 is outside it must be on surface 3. This process has been used for some time but older glazing was not coated and it seems that the practice them was to put the plain glass on the outside. If they supplied coated frosted glass perhaps we could have plain glass outside like we used to.

 

[ronniecabers]

We are installers and we used to manufacture sealed units so....

K Glass or Planitherm ( soft coat version more commonly used on sealed units in A rated frames ... as there is no such thing as an A rated sealed unit .. it is the entire frame and glass that gets the energy rating) should be on surface 2 , working on the assumption that surface 1 is the surface facing inside the property and surface 4 is facing outside the property. , so in the case of obscure sealed units , the obscure pane should always be surfaces 3 and 4.

Now there is an exception, and that is Decorative Glass. If you have, say a front door that has decorative and an obscure pane , then the changes are the decorative will be made on the K/Planitherm pane ( yes it is possible to put decorative/leadwork on softcoat ,we have done it for years , also being a manufacturer of decorative glass) , and then the decorative will have to be surfaces 3/4 for the UV stability of the colours to work. Now if you have side panels you will find the installer will match the side panels to the front door, which in reality would mean that all are round the wrong way round...BUT they will still keep some of the heat retention properties, especially if Argon Gas is used to ( which it should be under current building regulations )

 

[Gazman16]

It really doesn't make much difference which way it is fitted TBH. Not anything you could feel and it would still pass building regulations either way.
The additional savings on heating would be un-measurable unless you had massive full glass walls.

Many installers like myself still fit obscure glass the wrong way around deliberately.
It provides a better water tight seal, flat surface against the rubber gaskets rather than rough.
Also the reflections from the windows look equal when the house is viewed from outside.

I actually just had a factory supplier suggest fitting a job the wrong way around in a large glazed extension to reduce solar gain.

 

[Notch7]

Ive been told there is not much difference between soft coat / K on face 2 or face 3.

Mind you, Ive also been told sealed unit makers routinely 'forget' the argon.

 

[ronniecabers]

I'm so glad Gazman and Notch came on and said about K/softcoat on Surface 3, as I had been told the same , it makes little difference but I didn't want to jump in a be shot down in flames!

Not only do Sealed unit manufactures ' forget ' Argon ( its existence in the unit can only be determined by a ' Spark tester ' , which are incredibily expensive and I've only ever seen one in use , which was our Sealed Unit testing house! ), but you will also find that any Argon will be gone 5 years down the line as it seeps out through the sealant , something that Fensa are certainly aware of, as I had it confirmed at a Fensa convention some years back ( we already knew this as manufacturers but wanted to hear Fensas view... )