Problem with new celing light - help please!

M

m_ginty

hi,
I bought a new light fitting for a ceiling and went to fit it the other day but it's not working properly.
There are two cables coming out of the ceiling so I have 2 live/ 2 neutral and 2 earths.
The previous light fitting was a standard ceiling attachment.
It has 3 parts to it's terminal block.
on one side there are 2 cylinders to place cables in. One red cable from the actul light went in one of these and I think the 2 red cables from the celing went in the other.
The earths both went in the middle section on on the other side were 3 cylinders for cables. Cables from the light fitting and the 2 celing cables went into indivual cylinders.

When I installed the new fitting, there is only 3 cylinders to place cables in.
one earth/ one neutral and one live.
So, I fitted both lives cables from the ceiling, both earths and both neutrals into each of these 3 cylinders.
When I turned the mains back on, althought the light switch was off (it's a dimmer switch) the light was on. When I turned the dimmer into the on position, it tripped the switch.

I don't know why there are two cables from the ceiling and whether I need to do both or not. Can anyone offer any help as to how I should proceed? Should I get something to measure whether both cables are live?
Many thanks
 
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You have 'loop through rose' wiring. Common in the UK - rather than confuse you with a long winded description, there is a diagram in the reference section. - i suggest you print it out.
Note you do NOT have 2 lives and 2 neutrals. You have one live, one neutral, and pair of wires that happen to be the same colours as live and neutral but go to the switch on the wall - which you may have damaged by placing the the switch accross the supply instead of in series between supply and the lamp.

also here is a link to a thread discussing the same question.http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28576
edited later to add the link oops!
 
M

m_ginty

thanks for the pointers mapj1.

rh.jpg


as my query is very similar to the one in your link, I take it I will need to get a connector strip?
I have (hopefully) attached a wiring diagram from the light to be fitted
I will also need to get a multimeter I guess to find out which one is for the supply and which one is for the switch?

Am I correct in thinking that the earths from the 2 ceiling cables can go in the same socket, as can the neutrals but the live from the supply must go in a separate connection?
thanks for your help
 
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m_ginty said:
I have (hopefully) attached a wiring diagram from the light to be fitted
But it doesn't show your situation of the (incredibly common) loop system. Be thankful that you appear to be at the end of a lighting circuit, or you'd have 3 cables/9 wires to deal with.

I will also need to get a multimeter I guess to find out which one is for the supply and which one is for the switch?
That would be the easiest way.

Am I correct in thinking that the earths from the 2 ceiling cables can go in the same socket, as can the neutrals but the live from the supply must go in a separate connection?
thanks for your help
You don't have neutrals. You have 2 permanent lives, 1 switched live and 1 neutral.


BTW - you may have knackered the dimmer...
 
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Actually, as you are at the end of the chain, you don't need to. Connect the 2 reds to each other and nothing else.
Connect the new fitting between the two blacks (one as live from switch one as neutral, but for that fitting it will not care if they are reversed so pick either way round).
If it doesn't work replace the dimmer you blew up earlier, or try it with a normal switch in the place of the dimmer. (and note what goes where as you take it out this time :LOL: )
If you really do have a transformer in the fitting as the figure shows, you should check is it designed for dimming - generally transformers and dimmers can be an un-happy mix.. so if you need to replace the dimmer with another one make sure its going to be happy with your transformer fitting, or use a normal switch instead.

oh yes, earths together and to the casing please.
 
M

m_ginty

block-2.gif


I've left this for the last couple of weeks as I had to fit a door aswell.
Now I'm getting hassled to finish this ;)
I just want to make doubly sure I'm doing this correctly so I've nicked the pic from the other post you guided me to.
I've taken a lamp and connected it up and found which of the 2 wires is the supply and which go to the switch.
So, I take the 2 reds from supply and switch and put them into connector A2 and put the red from the new lamp into connector A1.
The two earths from the switch and supply go into B2 and the earth from the new lamp goes into B1.
It's the blacks I'm not sure about...where would they go in the connector strip?
Many many thanks for your advice!
 
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No, the red (or brown) from the new lamp needs to connect to the black from the switch, put a piece of red sleeve on this black wire as it is a live. The black from the supply connects to the black (or blue) on the new lamp.
To sum up,

  • Red from supply to A1/A2
    Red from switch to A1/A2
    All earth conductors to B1/B2
    Black (with red sleeve) from switch to C1/C2
    Red / Brown wire from light fitting to C1/C2
    Black wire from supply to D1/D2
    Black / Blue wire from light fitting to D1/D2
 
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m_ginty said:
So, I take the 2 reds from supply and switch and put them into connector A2 and put the red from the new lamp into connector A1.
mapj1 said:
Connect the 2 reds to each other and nothing else.

It's the blacks I'm not sure about...where would they go in the connector strip?
mapj1 said:
Connect the new fitting between the two blacks (one as live from switch one as neutral, but for that fitting it will not care if they are reversed so pick either way round).

m_ginty - you don't appear to have a clue what you are doing, or how lighting circuits are wired, and you don't seem able to follow the simplest of instructions.

I'm not having a go at you for the fun of it - I'm worried about your safety - please call an electrician before you have an accident.
 
M

m_ginty

no offence taken and I appreciate your concerns for my safety.
you're right in that I don't know about electrical cicuits and I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing.
That's exactly the reason why I am making absolutely sure (by posting questions) that I am understanding things before I do them. I've made one mistake and I don't want to do it again.
You may think that they are simple instructions but other people read things differently and some of what I've read doesn't make sense to me.
Anyway, I'm not here to fight and I've given up on it.
I'm too busy with other stuff to learn about electrical cicuits. There's other wiring problems in my house (not caused by me I hasten to add) that need sorting anyway so I'm calling an electrician.
I do appreciate the help and advice given here - maybe one day I'll get round to learning about it.
 

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