Regulations Myths

[securespark]

People have long discussed here about things that are said must be done, things that are passed down from one generation to another "because that's how you do it".

I had to go back a long way, but found a good example of one in the July 1939 copy of the 11th Ed:

(Talking about bathrooms)

1002 (C). All switches and socket-outlets which have no exposed metal parts, shall be so situated as to be out of reach of a person in a bath.

Note: In some cases, this requirement may make it desirable to provide a ceiling switch operated by a non-conducting cord, or to place the wall switch outside the room.

So, automatically, the requirement morphs into " it has to be a pullcord or be outside the room".

There are plenty of others.

 

[AndyPRK]

It could be similar to the current regs where sockets need to be 2.5m away from the bath. And our bathrooms tend to be small, so in practice (or rule of thumb), don't fit them.

And just were was it acceptable in 1939, to fit things with exposed metal parts? lol. Round pin sockets I guess ?

 

[ericmark]

1939, was not that the era when you brought in the tin bath and put it in front of the living room fire?

But seem to remember reading either guide or 14th edition, and it gave a distance socket to sink, clearly this was before we had things like waste disposal units, which connect to the sink, and we have a socket under the sink to supply it. However, the basic idea was the socket was further away from the sink to the length of flex on the kettle, so one had to unplug it to fill it.

Again today my kettles are cordless, and also one cup, so I always fill with a jug, and yes sit right next to the sink.

But I knew that before 1966 we were permitted lighting without an earth, and now only the pendent part is allowed not to have an earth, but looking at the regulations, Chapter 41 in old 2008 edition, heading Protective earthing, but Chapter 55 was all about Luminaires, so one can understand why people fail to find the regulation.

Also, nothing in the electrical regulations on socket heights, that's building regs, also nothing about have to have the plug on when sold, that's "Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994" and this is the problem, the regulations are all split up, so we use the guides, which seem to include things I can't find in any regulation, like number of wires which can run through conduit.

So one reads the BS 7671:2001 and then BS 7671:2008 about 300 pages, comes out, then BS 7671:2018 comes out, and yes they have a summary of changes, but one has learnt one edition, and one looks at the work one is doing and thinks, what is the regulation now? I look at a socket plate in the floor, and think, thought they had to be 300 mm high, that would be a trip hazard, or is it 350 mm high, do wheelchairs get lower once they leave a domestic building?

As to multi-TN-C-S supplies to one steel building, how does that work? And what should be done with a steel air line feeding two buildings using a different supply transformers? I am sure there is a regulation, but where?

 

[AdrianUK]

Another good one must the the myth about not using the armour of SWA as the CPC or the cutting back of the outer sheath of SWA to fit a BS951 clamp onto the armour....

 

[EFLImpudence]

1002 (C). All switches and socket-outlets which have no exposed metal parts, shall be so situated as to be out of reach of a person in a bath.

For the record:

What does it say about switches and sockets with exposed metal parts?

 

[ericmark]

I can't find my Lucas copy of the construction and use regulations. Seem to remember things like warning beacons must rotate at 60 - 150 revs per minute, indicators also 60 - 160 flashes per minute, and it talked about size of the light orthographical projected, and looking are cars today don't think they comply.

Bulb sizes must have changes, 4 - 7 watt for side lights, 18 - 36 watt for indicators and stop lights, but that must have changed now.

 

[Murdochcat]

My old man’s reading material

 

[Jurassicspark]

Oh dear.

The response was no comment by the looks of it. Think you made him

Mhmm, I should have included the word "smoke alarms" in the quote.

That might have interested him...

 

[Murdochcat]

The biggest problem these days is that the regs are too vague, too open to interpretation and constantly changed with little clarification for previous “mistakes”

And of course far too many sparks are fed up with the constant changes resulting in the need for buying regs books, guidance notes, exams, updates for software etc etc

 

[Highway Man]

.

 

[crystal ball]

I worked with an old school spark who insisted thermostats were mounted on PVC conduit boxes rather than standard galv back boxes

 

[ebee]

1939, was not that the era when you brought in the tin bath and put it in front of the living room fire?

50s and 60s around here was not uncommon.
Putting the gas hob rings on the cooker to warm up the kitchen and hose a little prior to lighting the coal fire was not uncommon either, sometimes for hours on end, no kitchen extractors back then but loose fitting sash window and ill fitting doors did accidentally prove half decent ventilation in many homes.
Bah Gum going out into the coal shed with a back yard full of snow or ice for a hod of coal in freezing weather first thing in the morning was a harsh life!

You would not visit the loo during the night cos it was in the back yard next to the coal place.

Only very rich folk could afford constipation medicine - things were hard!

 

[ericmark]

It is sometime hard to remember what home were like in the 2 up, 2 down days. The lighting was on the wall, easier to light and if using oil to fill. And I note the pre-1966 regulation to non need an earth still had some requirements like "Lighting fittings using filament lamps installed in a room having a non-conducting floor, mounted at such a height that they cannot readily be touched and are out of reach of earthed metal." so if the old gas or oil lamp was replaced with electric, even before 1966 it needed an earth, as often wall mounted.

The reference to "filament lamps" is a surprise, I suppose it was so fluorescent fitting were not included, however since they had filaments in either end to start them, they could be considered as filament lamps, and also the word "lamps" in the two up, two down, there would be a spigot on the wall, same idea as the one we had for the bike front lamp, and the whole lamp would be filled (if oil) on the table, and then put on the spigot, so the whole assembly was called a lamp, inside the lamp we may have wicks or mantels or bulbs, but the whole item was a lamp. Yet the regulations seem to be referring to the bulb as a lamp.

Sometimes, wonder when technology came out, the Jubilee Bridge in Queensferry North Wales had knife switches, built between 1925 and 1927, yet I am sure the dash pot starter for star/delta and even the auto transformer and resistor starter were in use far before that date, it was around 1970 when I made the mistake of trying to raise the bridge, not realising concrete had been used on the roadway, and it was now too heavy to lift, and the supply to the bridge now also served a housing estate, so I tripped out the whole supply, but maybe my memory is playing tricks on me?

And this is possible, our memory is reinforced each time we recall it, so do I remember being in a cot as a baby, or do I remember remembering being in a cot as a baby, and the latter could have been reinforced by others talking about it.

But as an apprentice, if I asked to see the regulations, it was why do you want to see them, and often I was told what was in them, rather than reading them myself, it was only when BS7671:1992 came out, did we get our grubby hands on the actual book. We may have seen the guide, published by the Union, but not sure how good that really was?

 

[mattylad]

Eeee, when I were a lad I was werking in t'mill, aye them were the days, stretching the cotton so it can be made into that there new fangled fabric called denim. I neer did get a pair o jeans out o the job.

Lots of myths are abound, someone says something, someone else hears it wrong then it gets retold wrongly in their own way and so on.
Even today we don't get to see the standards we are supposed to be building to, instead a manager that has probably never read them gets to decide what's what. Makes for some reet discussions.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

So, automatically, the requirement morphs into " it has to be a pullcord or be outside the room".

It was a simple, common sense, way to meet the regs., and so needed little thought.