Replacing Internal Door Frames

[pfenwick]

I have just purchased a 1950's house and I have 3 different sized door frames througout. The previous owners had cats (scratched frames) and a DIY pain they have doors to small for the frames so they have put battens around 3 sides of the frames on the lounge so they shut, and they look a mess.

I am going to replaster the lounge in the new year, would i be best to remove the old frames and install new ones then plaster or remove the frames plaster then fit new frames.

Please advise which way round I should do the sequence for the best results.

Plus I have never removed and replaced internal door frames please advise best way to remove and fit new ones.

 

[Thermo]

fit new ones first then plaster up to them. Remove them with a bit of patience. cut the jambs (the vertical members) through with a saw. then prise them out with a crowbar and hammer.

 

[pfenwick]

Upstairs I have one door frame with a window above it, the window use to be slated glass but the previous owner has put a flat piece of glass in which makes the frame look very bad.

I am going to replace the frame, can I buy a frame with glass openings above them or would I be best fitting the frame then building a small batten stud frame above the door frame to plasterboard it then plaster over the top any suggestions please?

 

[masona]

Best to use celcon blocks instead of plasterboard, the problem with plasterboard against plaster wall is the hairline crack on edge will be showing unless you're going to use wallpaper or tiles to cover it.

 

[Scrit]

...I am going to replace the frame, can I buy a frame with glass openings above them....

One or two joinery firms list storey light frames, but in a very limited range of sizes. Normally I'd make-up a frame from scratch. You can buy lengths of pre-profiled timbers from some of the trade joinery people, then you'd need to cut the mortise and tenon joints to make it up.

Are the frames so bad that they couldn't be filled and sanded (after removing the battens) then doors made/cut to fit or do you want to finish the timber with clear varnish or stain? I just think that replacing the doors and casings, architraves, etc is going to be a lot of work

Scrit

 

[pfenwick]

unfortunately they are in a bad way else I would fill and sand them down.

I don't know what the previous owner was trying to attempt but some of the frames have been drilled that many times there is not many fixing points to hang new doors on.

 

[pfenwick]

When changing the door frames how easy would it be to modify the width and height of the openings? they currently are not a standard width and height they are larger and the coices of doors are not as great.

I am possilbly looking reducing the height and width by a couple of inches but not sure on how I should do this

 

[Scrit]

It will probably be easier to reduce the size of an opening than open it up as the frame/linings can always be supported on bigger blocks and the resulting larger gaps filled rather than starting to hack into existing masonery.You don't say if the walls are brick, blockwork or stud - all of these have a bearing on how the job is done.

Scrit

 

[pfenwick]

not sure what the walls are yet, not removed any of the frames as yet but I know that they are not stud, they are either brick or breezeblock or brick I think???

 

[Scrit]

What is the problem about having different sized door openings, so long as they are somewhere near to standard sizes? By standard sizes I mean the sort of sizes you'd get from a manufacturing joinery company such as Magnet or Howdens, not the Chinese banana wood doors B&Q supply. You may find that when you get the casings out that they are fixed to what are called "pallets" - timber uprights which are secured in turn to the masonry. Even if they are not you'll still find it easier to reduce the openings to a standard size (if possible) rather than open them up - and it will make much less mess.

Scrit

 

[pfenwick]

The two lounge existing frames will takes doors about 79" H x 32" W as you say we are finding some of the doors supplied by some retailers are about 78" x 30" but can order other sizes.

I found last night that the retailers dont supply the door frames to fit the 79"x32" doors.

I may have to try our local timber yard I guess.

How easy would it be to build my own frames???

 

[Scrit]

Piece of cake. Most internal doors don't have frames like exterior doors do (I say most, because there are exceptions), they use what we call casings - tell the door supplier that you want rebated stock for door casings. The casings in our (Victorian) house are 6 x 1-1/2in yellow pine with a rebate machined out at one side for the door (the walls are 6in thick upstairs). An alternative would be to use 6 x 1in PAR (planed all round) stuff and nail 2 x 1/2in PAR stuff to it to create the rebate. The nail heads are set (punched under) and filled with wood filler. The tops of the the jambs (uprights) have a rebate worked across the ends and the underside of the transoms (tops) are trenched (grooved) across. Your timbers need to be dead straight - no warp or twist - or you'll struggle hanging the door later on. The whole lot is dovetail nailed through the top of the casing and glued together and left to set before installing. To keep it square battens (2 x 1in) are nailed diagonally across both the corners and a distance piece is nailed side to side near the bottom of the casing. The nail holes are covered by the architrave moulding when that is installed, so don't worry about them. Before installing, but after the glue has set, the horns will need to be sawn off the ends of the transom. The casing is installed in the opening and packed on sawn wedges - cross-grain wedges make it easier to install as the protruding ends break-off clean - don't put too much pressure on the casing as you'll distort it. You need to set the top of the casing level with a spirit level and ensure that the jambs are plumb (vertical). Secure in position using frame fixings (or long screws if the opening has wooden pallets (uprights) embedded into the masonry) at the sides and check that the jambs are straight by measuring across the casing at several points. Fill gaps with expanding foam (not too much!), although if the opening is clean this may not be needed.

The storey light is dealt with by trenching the two jambs and adding a stretcher. Once again this is dovetail nailed and glued, although I tend to pull these up with a couple of sash cramps before nailing to get a nice tight joint. Nail some stuff to the upper side of the stretcher to create the glazing rebate.

When everything is installed you can remove the braces and add the architraves. Do the tops first, then add the jambs. You may need to cut away the bottoms of the architraves with a coping saw to accommodate your existing skirtings. To keep the mitre closed I'd suggest diagonally pinning through the mitres from the top as well as a dab of glue (assuming you don't have any mitre mate)

Scrit