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Resiting a Gas Meter

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by FozzieBear, 21 Feb 2011.

  1. FozzieBear

    FozzieBear

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    I wonder if any Gas Safe or Heating Engineers can advise on the following:-
    Our village hall has a very long external pipe run from the gas meter to the boiler. Although it is in 22mm copper the pressure at the boiler is only 16mBar which we belive is causing low water temperatures from the boiler. As I see it we have three possible options:-

    1) Change the pipework from 22mm to 28mm copper or 32mm screwed barrel or possible this product http://tracpipe.co.uk/Main1.htm Has anyone used this? All expensive in their own right, although I dont know the price of the Tracpipe.
    2) Find a new boiler that will run at 16mBar or lower gas pressure or an oversized more efficient boiler.
    3) Move the gas meter to an external box outside the boiler room.

    Regarding the latter I have asked Transco for a quote and they want £400 up front just to do the quote. This is on top of the actual cost for the work :eek:
    Please can anyone advise if I can either:-
    a) Approach anyone other than Transco to resite the meter, for example Crown Energy http://www.crownenergy.co.uk/energysupply-meterinstallations.php?gclid=CMOakaH0macCFUkhfAodQHNYcw

    b) Get a subcontractor to dig the trench and install the yellow flexible gas pipe and then get Transco to do the final connection to the meter and joint to the existing service pipe?

    I get the impression from some groundworkers who are digging trenches for services on some new houses nearby that the latter is possible.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    Fozzie
     
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  3. Jazzynash

    Jazzynash

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    What type of boiler do you have combi or regular ?
     
  4. FozzieBear

    FozzieBear

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    Its a regular floor standing boiler about 10 years old. Not sure of the make.
    We have just had a new extension put on the hall and the radiators (and rooms) are not coming up to temperature. It was designed by a firm of electromechanical engineers so their calculations have been double checked and are correct.
    After a lot of toing and froing with the plumber who installed the new rads and balancing over several weeks the engineer found the output temperature of the water was only 61 degrees where it should I belive be 80ish degrees. Further investigation showed the gas pressure was low.
    Fozzie
     
  5. expertgasman

    expertgasman

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  6. Agile

    Agile

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    From what you have said it seems that no one has actually checked the boiler!

    With 16 mB at the input the boiler can still be set to give its rated output with no problem.

    A simple check will show the input power.

    The first thing to do is the have the boiler checked and properly set up.

    Its quite possible that the boiler power output is not adequate for the heating requirements but that should have been checked at the design stage.

    Tony
     
  7. FozzieBear

    FozzieBear

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    About £175 plus vat for 15m according to this site http://www.colglo.co.uk/product.php?product=TRACBFGP2815&category=219d0373

    About 15m but it winds all round a building and has numerous elbows which we assume is causing the restriction.

    Was a verbal quote by Transco during a discussion on the phone but when you do an online quotation request it asks for your credit card, so I assume it is correct. I will ring them again.


    I haven't really given all the background as this has been going on for nearly six months but I belive the plumber who extended the heating into the new annex has checked the boiler and ensured the thermostat etc is correctly set.
    The design engineers did some tests on the boiler and with the the circulating pump switched off the flow temperature reaches 80 degrees but drops to 60 when running. This may be either that the boiler is inefficient or undersized or the low gas pressure is to blame.
    However are you saying you can increase the pressure to the burner via the regulator in the boiler to take account of the low gas pressure?

    I still need to know if only Transco can move the meter or do the underground pipework.
    Fozzie
     
  8. Agile

    Agile

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    Nothing you have added says that anyone has checked the boiler setting.

    That needs a competent boiler engineer who can measure the power input and set it to the correct power output ( within the limits of the design ).

    This is the most simple of jobs for any engineer!

    You could even measure the power yourself by reading the FAQ thread on this forum.

    But you will need to know the model and design power range which is likely to be on the boiler data plate.

    Tony Glazier
     
  9. expertgasman

    expertgasman

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    I still need to know if only Transco can move the meter or do the underground pipework.
    Fozzie[/quote]

    From memory, I seem to remember that the form explains that no credit willbe given for any preliminary work carried out by the client. It is some time ago since I was involved in such a project, but have you actually read the online form? Again from memory, I'm sure it carries a lot of detailed explanation of chgarges. They were always done on a fixed price per metre, or within "bands" of meterage.

    But then again, things change.........
     
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  11. FozzieBear

    FozzieBear

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    Just been round and checked the length of the pipe run. Its actually in excess of 32m not 15m as I estimated.

    Thanks for that observation I will relay that to the architect who is dealing with the plumber.

    Have just dug out the paperwork from National Grid (previously Transco) their quotation charge is £400 for a Band 2 "Any non domestic connection between 695Kw and 1733Kw with a single supply. ie they charge £400 just to prepare a quotation.

    Fozzie
     
  12. expertgasman

    expertgasman

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    ) their quotation charge is £400 for a Band 2 "Any non domestic connection between 695Kw and 1733Kw with a single supply. ie they charge £400 just to prepare a quotation.


    Bit of a cheek, methinks. I'll call and give you a quote for£200!

    Seriously, it does stink a little. Does the p[aperwork give ypou any clues as to what the charge would be. They used to, as I said, work on fixed prices, they explained how to work out the charge, and you submitted the paperwoprk, with the fee. They would then come out (eventually) and do the work according to the self-quote, but presumaby billled you if the work was under estimated. If they did offer this service, then i suppose it would be fair to charge for a personal visit if one was insisted upon.
     
  13. FozzieBear

    FozzieBear

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    No none what so ever. You are reliant on them receiving the information and then visiting site. In the end I went to Crown Energy who will do a quotation for free. I have taken some photos and created a plan of the current and proposed locations and will await their reply.
    One final question, do Building/Gas Safety regulations allow the siting of a gas meter in the boiler house? Its only a large domestic boiler and I am sure I previously seen gas meters in commercial/industrial boiler rooms??? Would the room require additional ventilation etc?

    Fozzie
     
  14. FozzieBear

    FozzieBear

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    Just a quick update and a thank you to all those who replied to my posting. I have now sucessfully had a quotation from Crown Energy to resite the existing meter from an external box to a lobby on our Village Hall kitchen (which also involves digging up a concrete yard for the full 20+m and reinstating it). Not cheap at £2390 + VAT but I suspect not a lot more than upgrading the 32m run of 22mm copper pipe to 28mm copper or 32mm screwed barrel. At least it will give the appropriate pressure to the boiler. I would thoroughly recommend this company if you need the meter moved. At least they dont charge £400 up fron like National Grid just to provide a quote.
    Fozzie
     
  15. bengasman

    bengasman

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    In virtually all cases, an upgrade of your pipe will be loads cheaper than changing the supply ( Transco's ) pipe.
     
  16. Steambod

    Steambod

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    I agree, other bits that could be considered: take it whoever looked at the boiler checked the pressure off the meter when it was running? Had a couple of school meters where the regulator was stuck and pressure low.
    Some boilers (usually older atmospheric ones) can go down as low as 5" wg (13mB), if you have the details somewhere should be able to find out if it's within spec or what it needs to get full o/p.

     
  17. FozzieBear

    FozzieBear

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    When we contacted our gas supplier about the possibility of increasing the pressure at the regulator, they had a National Grid engineer on site within an hour and told us to turn everything off. Whether this is because we said we had low pressure and they thought we had a leak I dont know. However he tested the output at the meter and said there was 20mb at the output which was correct and could not increase this further.
    Even the engineer who did our recent gas safety certificate was in two minds about failing the installation due to low gas pressure.

    The first thing we did was contact our gas suplier to ask them to move the meter. It was they who told us we would have to go to National Grid to get the meter moved. It was only on the third time of contacting National Grid that I could get out them that there were a limited number of other companys who could move the meter and to look at the Lloyds List.
    You would be suprised since you last had a meter changed. NG want a non returnable charge up fron to provide the quote.

    I have taken this quote below directly from the Ofgem website
    Evidentially there are a number of Ofgem Approved Meter Installer (OAMI) who can move a meter a short distance but not usually when extending or altering the service pipe is concerned.
    If you know different and can point me to another company in Hertfordshire who can extend the service pipe and move the meter to a new location then I would be pleased to here. I am only going on what I have been told by my Gas supplier and National Grid, hence my post on this site
    Fozzie
     
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