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Ring Circuit Layout

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by kevinsmbuk, 13 Oct 2021.

  1. kevinsmbuk

    kevinsmbuk

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    I need to extend a ring circuit into a utility room for a washing machine and tumble dryer. Both alliances will have their own socket which can be isolated individually above surface.

    How would you go about bringing in the ring circuit from the next room (dining room), the ceiling of the utility room/toilet is flat roof and lower than the dining room, plus there is a lintel in place.

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  3. ericmark

    ericmark

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    It depends what you are willing to pay for neatness, dado trunking and skirting trunking is expensive but looks go, T2 trunking can look rotten, but seen even T2 used next to skirting and other trims so you don't realise it hold cables once painted.

    Mineral cables and Alitube cables can also help making something look good.

    But all down to skill and money.
     
  4. sparkwright

    sparkwright

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    Cables can be concealed in walls within 150mm from the ceiling, and also 150mm from the wall corners.
     
  5. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    ... and, of course, horizontally and vertically from accessories.
     
  6. kevinsmbuk

    kevinsmbuk

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    Thanks for the replies all, I'm not sure I have explained myself properly but the ring must come from the room I'm standing in, in the first pic through to what will be the utility room (where the sockets are chased out).

    The normal route would be above ceiling and drill through centre of joist but there is a steel and ceiling height difference to contend with?

    I understand the regs of where wires can be chased in, but that doesn't answer how I actually get the cables to that room in the first place, i.e drill above lintel down into utility?? Etc..
     
  7. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    From what you've said, it doesn't sound as if there are problems in relation to regulations concerning the routing of cables - so does it not just come down to a question of what is physically/logistically possible (and also aesthetically acceptable)?

    Kind Regards, John
     
  8. Robin0577

    Robin0577

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    How does the supply get to the existing socket in that space, the one that your tools are plugged into?
     
  9. ericmark

    ericmark

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    The start point is the loop impedance readings, from that you can work out what extra cable if any can be added to the ring final. It is considered today that 106 meters is the limit, but that is for volt drop, the earth loop impedance is what is important to ensure the magnetic part of the MCB will operate in the event of a fault.

    The Wiki on this forum gives the safe zones etc. And on completion some one will be inspecting and testing, be it a scheme member electrician, the LABC or some one appointed by LABC they will need to test and inspect, so exceeding the limits is not really an option.

    106 meters seems a lot, but by time one has gone up and down the walls a few times, one can soon exceed it, so it does need some design, which could mean spurs and fused spurs to comply.

    It is all well and good when LABC is not involved to exceed the limits, and cross your fingers, but converting rooms from and to bathrooms and kitchens is subject to planning permission so LABC is involved, I know as I got caught out.

    I also found the LABC inspector was not keen on me doing the inspection and testing, he did in the end permit it, when we pointed out if some one was to say what I have done was wrong, he would need to hold same or above qualifications and I was level 5.

    It seems is LABC or scheme member is doing electrics it is one tick box on the form, do ensure the LABC knows if you are using them to inspect and test, you don't want to have to expose cables again. Also they wanted to use a third party to inspect mine, which I would need to pay for, although the LABC selects who does it, so that can easy add another £200 to the bill.

    I took over a job, and had assumed the LABC already informed, so wanted to get my name not the sacked builders name on the forms, it seems the builder had not informed the LABC and also it was not them who had to tell them, it is down to the owner. Only exception is if the electrician has some where indicated he is a scheme member.

    I think the Part P is a waste of time and money, when I tried to get copies of the certificates on selling the house I was told it would take 4 months, but I don't have a clue how much cross reference there is, if a scheme provider tells the LABC a new kitchen has been wired up, do they look to see if planning permission granted? I suspect not. But not to tell you what should be done, is clearly wrong. Also it depends on who owns the building there are exceptions, I know at work very little requires planning permission as it is a railway, and some things like trespass is a criminal offence, where else where it would not be. Also rules England and Wales vary.
     
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  11. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Whilst everything you say is true, the OP is asking about a method of physically routing the cables, not how long they are allowed to be.

    However, in the hope that it may reduce the risk of those reading your post being confused/misled ......
    Such work will very rarely require Planning Permission, but it will (particularly in the case of a bathroom) require Building Regulations approval - which I assume is what you meant to write (should have written).
    I've lost count of the number of times we have pointed out that you may mislead people by repeatedly talking about "Part P" (of the Building Regulations") when you are actually referring to the requirement to notify certain electric work to LABC (far more electrical working being notifiable in Wales than in England). As you know, "Part P" is simply one sentence which say that electrical work must be done safely, and I would hope you would not regard that, or the requirement to comply with it, to be "a waste of time and money".

    Kind Regards, John
     
  12. Lectrician

    Lectrician

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    I’m confused. There’s already sockets in there, so must be access to the ring?
     
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  13. GarethW

    GarethW

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    Just what I was thinking.
     

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  14. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Same here. In fact, there's only one 'live' socket we've seen in the pics (the one near the floor with tools plugged in), since the ones on the back wall appear to be 'awaiting their wiring'.

    However, that one double socket is plenty to 'beg the question'!

    Kind Regards, John
     
  15. opps

    opps

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    They seem to be lacking any cables.
     
  16. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    As I just wrote, other than the one near the floor with tools plugged into it - which presumably does 'have cables'?

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  17. opps

    opps

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    My bad, sorry. And there seems to be one on the far left.
     
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