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Scantronic 9800 house alarm Cooper 9651 replacement

Discussion in 'Alarms, CCTV & Telephones' started by Calcaiola, 14 Feb 2021.

  1. Calcaiola

    Calcaiola

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    Hi all, I hope and trust you’re well during these difficult times.

    An elderly neighbour has an old Scantronic 9800 alarm which, due to worn digits on the keypad, has probably had its day. Her son has done a bit of research and ordered a Cooper/Scantronic 9651 system as a replacement – he assures me this is a direct replacement and since he lives far away has asked if I could replace it for her! (I’m generally quite handy but have never done anything like this before). I’ve read the installation manual, and will re-read it before starting anything, but I’d just like to sanity check what to do and the order to do it.

    1. Isolate the mains electric to the old unit. (Not sure if she has the ‘engineer’s code’ of the old unit so I’m assuming she doesn’t).

    2. Get up the ladder. Open the bell box. Siren will sound. Disconnect the wiring to the sounder. Sounder stops.

    3. Back inside. (I assume the internal sounder is going off at this stage?). Open up the old unit. Disconnect the internal battery - internal sounder should also stop.

    4. Make a note of all the wires and channels (I think there’s a front door magnetic contact, 4 PIRs, 2 panic buttons (one near front door and one in master bedroom) and a window shock sensor – but I’ll check everything before I start).

    5. Disconnect all of the wires and remove the old unit and keypad from the wall.

    6. Fix new unit and keypad to wall.

    7. Connect all wiring (mains, keypad and channels).

    8. Put in new internal battery. Close everything up. (Will the internal sounder start going?)

    9. Back up the ladder. Connect the sounder and close the bell box (assume external sounder will probably start going off).

    10. Back inside. Enter the engineer’s code and start the programming?!?

    Does this sound about right? As mentioned, I’ll re-read the manual (and figure out what to do with this proximity tag – I think that was one of the main reasons to get her this unit) but I just wanted to get the order of things clear in my mind.

    Apologies, if I’m using any incorrect terminology but I’m hoping the above makes some sort of sense.

    Thanks.
     
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  3. sparkymarka

    sparkymarka

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    Think a mistake has been made as the 9651 is being made obsolete.....plus your going to either fit EOL resistors if you want individual tampers like the 9800 or convert to global tampers ...
     
  4. Calcaiola

    Calcaiola

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    Hi Sparkymarka, thanks for your reply. I'm pretty sure it's the 9651 as the son told me he bought it a 'couple of years ago' with the intention of replacing it but never did and, since then, moved away without replacing it.

    I'm really sorry, but you slightly lost me with the 'end of line' (?) resistors and individual/global tampers' - Could you please expand?

    He assured me it was a 'straight swap' but I'm starting to doubt this now...
     
  5. sparkymarka

    sparkymarka

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    9800 will use a 4 wire ( 2 for alarm 2 for tamper ) plus 2 for power if a powered device ....so zone 1 will have C1 for alarm and T1 for tamper ...the 9651 does not have a separate tamper for alarm....so your either going to wire it with a global tamper or fit resistors in each device ....if you still don’t understand this then maybe this swop is not for you !
     
  6. Calcaiola

    Calcaiola

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    Thanks again, Sparkymarka. TBH, I read your response twice and I still don't understand so I appreciate this swap may be beyond me. But, in the spirit of learning, what are the advantages (disadvantages) of global tamper Vs resistors in each device? From my naive perspective a 'global tamper' sounds 'easier' (not that I know what a global tamper is).

    I've just noticed that my own alarm (already installed when I moved in a couple of years ago) is a 9651PD (not sure how a PD differs to a standard unit) but I might open it up tomorrow to see if that helps clarify anything.
     
  7. Handymanjo

    Handymanjo

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    Your system may be programmed to engineer reset on tamper .
    When opening a tampered device the system may require the engineer code to reset the system,certain 9651 came as default a few years back as eng rest. Two versions of control panel old British standard or EN version were available back then.
     
  8. Calcaiola

    Calcaiola

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    Hi all,

    me again....sorry!

    I've been doing a bit of reading wrt the above topic (i.e. swapping an old 9800 system for a new 9651 system).

    I've opened up the lady's old system and tried to captured everything in the below image 'Alarm 9800 Old'.

    I've then tried to map out the new system, thinking about Sparkmarka's tamper comments above, and schematically shown everything in the image 'Alarm 9651 New'. Apologies if the 'white' wires haven't come out too well and if they're not that obvious. Also, apologies as wires are seemingly coming out from both the 'front' and 'back' of cables - but it was getting quite tricky to shown everything. Based on the naming system of the various zones (i.e. Front door, kitchen PIR etc), I assume the cables feeding them are how I've labelled them on the diagrams but they weren't actually labelled in the control unit and I've not carried out any continuity testing.


    I hope the diagrams make sense and I was hoping one/some of you could cast your eyes over them to make sure I'm on the right track. Where you see 'question marks' are the bits I'm especially not too sure on i.e.
    1. window shock sensor reset going to O/P 3
    2. old 'bell' wire now going to O/P 1
    3. Old 'strobe' wire now going to O/P 2
    4. New position of 12 V and 0 V wires from bell box.
    (I assume old 'TR' still goes to new TR!)
    5. The way I've tried to daisy chain global tamper (Sparkmarka...I think I eventually got there).

    Any thoughts are more than welcome.

    Thanks.
     

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    Last edited: 7 Mar 2021
  9. Handymanjo

    Handymanjo

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    That looks fine.
    ? = Aux 12v terminals for power of devices and also for the bell box power as well.
    ? = Op3 can be programmed as detector reset for shock sensors.
     
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  11. Calcaiola

    Calcaiola

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    Thanks for taking the time to review and for your comments, Handymanjo. Good to get your take on things and the two points you confirmed were the ones I was most unsure about.

    The lady's son has also asked if I could replace the external sounder whilst I'm at it so I may well be back to bother you with that!

    Thanks again.
     
  12. Calcaiola

    Calcaiola

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    Actually, Handymanjo (or anybody else), any idea why there are two wires currently going to '12V' from the external alarm bell box (green and red in the above diagram)? I've not opened up the external bell box and I don't know the make/manufacturer, I was just wondering if bell boxes always just had one 12V wire and, in this case, if the other had something to do with the master bedroom panic button - as I think the cable is shared between these two zones.

    Thanks.
     
  13. Handymanjo

    Handymanjo

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    Could be 12v for STROBE and 12v for bell
     
  14. Calcaiola

    Calcaiola

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    Thanks (again!) Handymanjo - I don't suppose I'll know for sure until I open up the old bell box.

    I had a chat with the lady's son. He's had a quick online look and ordered the Oydssey 4E - I hope this meets with people's approval.

    I'm sure I'll be back in touch once it's arrived and I've had a chance to look at the manual....
     
  15. Calcaiola

    Calcaiola

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    Hi Handymanjo/all,

    the Odyssey 4E bell box arrived - with no manual. I tried looking online, and I think I know what to do, but it would be great if you could confirm.

    1. Wall mounting. Can I use the 4 corner cut-outs indicated in the attached image to mount to the wall? With the bottom left 'green' hole being the breakout for wall tamper?

    2. Position of jumpers. As per the image, the jumpers arrived set as:
    Batt: OFF
    SAB
    LC: Off

    I *think* the 2nd jumper should be set to SAB (as arrived - as that way the bell box power is drawn from the control power rather than the built-in battery?). Please confirm.
    I *think* the 3rd jumper should be set to 'off' (as arrived - as that means 'high power'?) Please confirm (and, ideally, please explain what this is referring to).

    Could somebody please confirm the 1st jumper setting? Should it really be on 'off' (as arrived)?

    Does it matter the order of wiring up the bell box and setting the jumpers?

    Yet again, excuse my ignorance and thanks in advance.
     

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  16. secureiam

    secureiam

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    Once the bell has been set up and functions correctly then the battery jumper should be put to the on position.

    it is off during transit.
     
  17. Calcaiola

    Calcaiola

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    Many thanks, secureiam.
     
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