Shaverlight - metal, but no earth?

[stevesey]

Hi

I've just taken delivery of a DAR Alto shaverlight. Very odd connection method - there is an external choc block with an IP44 cover (size about 1" * 1" * 2" in all). It appears you are supposed to create a cavity in the wall/tiling for this - odd, but fair enough, however the choc bloc is on short leads and right next to one of the fixing screws - would be quite difficult to create a suitable cavity without ending up screwing into open air.

Secondly the unit is double instulated and has no earth connection. Yet it is a metal box with a chrome/glass facia (internal wires run around edge of the metal box). As we will be placing rechargable shavers and toothbrushes on to of the unit the risk of either the light itself or a charger/ lead making the metalwork live seems unacceptable.

I will be moving the choc block inside the unit and adding an earth under one of the mounting screws, for a more conventional installation.

From the design I suspected that this was a non-UK item, however I see from www.darlighting.co.uk that they are an english company with a UK factory. Is the original design really acceptable in the UK?

 

[davy_owen_88]

If it is double insulated it is NOT meant to have an earth connection and you may well void that insulation if you try to add an earthing point. You may also sacrifice the IP rating by doing so.

Moving the choc-block inside the fitting is also not a good idea. Just follow the instructions - that is what they are there for. You may end up making it more unsafe than you think it is now.

Davy

 

[luminaire]

One assumes so. Does it come with proper specification with all the right EN numbers?
If you don't like it you can always send it back with your concerns?

Looks like something Ikea would sell!

 

[bernardgreen]

If it is double insulated it is NOT meant to have an earth connection and you may well void that insulation if you try to add an earthing point. You may also sacrifice the IP rating by doing so.

Moving the choc-block inside the fitting is also not a good idea. Just follow the instructions. That is what they are there for, you may end up making it more unsafe than you think it is now.

Davy

Adding an earth will NOT "void" the insulation provided that the earth connection is made to a real earth that is the same as any other exposed metal in the area and cannot become live itself.

The idea of a terminal block in a cavity in a wall of a bath room is hardly sensible when one remembers that condensation can run down walls.

Double insulation is seldom effective in very damp situations. Would you use a double insulated electric power tool in the rain ?

 

[RF Lighting]

As you say it has a socket to plug in your shaver / toothbrush, then one assumes that it will contain a safety isolating transformer.

This will probably be why the incomming mains connections are kept away from the fitting, and the metalwork does not require earthing.

 

[davy_owen_88]

But we don't know exactly how he intends on adding that earth connection. Yes if you were to do the work I wouldn't hesitate to agree with you but just 'adding an earth' doesn't mean its going to be magically safer if the person doing it doesn't know what he's doing.

If the choc-block comes with a suitably rated enclosure then there should be no problem - again depending on how the manufacturer says it should be done. Not following the instructions will void you of any warranty it comes with.

 

[stevesey]

If it is double insulated it is NOT meant to have an earth connection and you may well void that insulation if you try to add an earthing point. You may also sacrifice the IP rating by doing so.

Moving the choc-block inside the fitting is also not a good idea. Just follow the instructions - that is what they are there for. You may end up making it more unsafe than you think it is now.

Davy

Not sure why adding a earth point (inside) would break the IP44 rating - this will make no difference to the water resistance (unless I drilled tha case - which would be foolish).

Actually the instructions tell me to make the connection by pulling the mains cable through the grommet and using the choc block inside the unit (no mention of an external one).

 

[bernardgreen]

Some of the light fittings I have been asked to fit for friends make me wonder if the designer had ever been in a bath room ** and seen what happens when steam meets cold metal and painted plaster.

All too often the problem of water dripping from condensation had been over looked.

It des require a bit of common sense when deciding where and how to add an effective earth tag.



** one of them I know hadn't, or he was using organic de-oderant.

 

[davy_owen_88]

Not sure why adding a earth point (inside) would break the IP44 rating - this will make no difference to the water resistance (unless I drilled tha case - which would be foolish).

Well I'm not psychic mate I don't know how you intended to do it. I'm just saying there are ways to add an earth which would break the rating i.e a screw through the metal case (which is a common way of earthing certain fittings).

Actually the instructions tell me to make the connection by pulling the mains cable through the grommet and using the choc block inside the unit (no mention of an external one).

So what were you mentioning a cavity for if the choc-block goes in the fitting?

Anyway, you can pretty much ignore most of what I said if you don't intend on creating any new holes. I was just making sure. I still think you should follow the instructions though but as long as you can ensure the earth tag isn't breaking any seals/insulation and is properly connected to earth then you are fine.

Davy

 

[stevesey]

Well I'm not psychic mate I don't know how you intended to do it. I'm just saying there are ways to add an earth which would break the rating i.e a screw through the metal case (which is a common way of earthing certain fittings).

OP did say "under the mounting screw" - not 100% clear I'll admit - but a lug and washer under the screw head is what I had in mind.

So what were you mentioning a cavity for if the choc-block goes in the fitting? ...

... I still think you should follow the instructions though...

That's part of the problem - instructions say use the choc block inside, as supplied the choc block is outside with it's own IP44 rubber case - which you would need to hide in a cavity behind the unit.

Can't figure out what advantage an external choc block would offer, it's not as if this removes the need to open the unit up - you need to do this to screw to wall and put the bulbs in.

 

[stevesey]

Some of the light fittings I have been asked to fit for friends make me wonder if the designer had ever been in a bath room

Can't but help agree, just noticed that the pull cord comes out at the very back of the bottom edge. What do most people have under a shaverlight? A mirror so pull cord will run flush down the surface of any mirror under the unit!!!!!

 

[securespark]

As we will be placing rechargeable shavers and toothbrushes on top of the unit the risk of either the light itself or a charger/ lead making the metalwork live seems unacceptable.

Is this wise?

Is it recommended/ not recommended by the manufacturer?

 

[stevesey]

As we will be placing rechargeable shavers and toothbrushes on top of the unit the risk of either the light itself or a charger/ lead making the metalwork live seems unacceptable.

Is this wise?

Is it recommended/ not recommended by the manufacturer?

Interesting question. Manufacturers instructions don't cover this issue - have been happily doing so on our old linolite for years.