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Shoddy combi install, mains water flush microbore a good idea?

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by AkiraDIY, 27 Dec 2019.

  1. AkiraDIY

    AkiraDIY

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    I just got a new boiler fitted a few weeks ago and I'm pretty certain the guy cut every corner possible. The system was not flushed, no cleaner or inhibitor was used and the core for the flue was eyeballed without a pilot hole drilled.

    The condensate drain goes into a PVC pipe that was previously used for a kitchen sink (kitchen was relocated by the previous owner). There's no trap on this connection and the fitter has branched the PVC pipe with an open end and placed the copper pipe of the blow off / PRV into this to avoid drilling another hole through the wall (picture attached). Getting some funny smells in the room occasionally, which I'm assuming is sewer gas so I'll need to install a trap somewhere.

    Also been bleeding the rads regularly for the last week as a lot of air was left in the system (my CH pipes goes into the loft space before dropping back down to supply the rads from below) and the water coming out the bleed valves is black. The guy installed a Spirotech filter and I've been flushing that occasionally too and the water that comes out is full of little black bits.

    The cold feed has been placed on the flow side, if I isolate the return on the boiler and open the cold feed (while keeping an eye on the pressure gauge) would i be able to use the Spirotech as a drain point to flush the system? All the rads are connected on 8mm microbore pipe, would this be likely to result in a blockage?

    Finally, would I be able to connect the cold feed with an external pressure gauge to the Spirotech and use the fill point as a drain to do a backflush (after removing the non-return valve) or is backflushing unnecessary?
     

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  3. CBW

    CBW

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    Wow that’s rough. First thing that should be sorted is the plug (shouldn’t have cables like that on show:eek:). Yes there should be a trap to prevent smells entering the building, also that gas pipe maybe inadequately sized. Yes it should have been checked/flushed prior to installation and should have had inhibitor added for protection, especially since you’re bleeding rads and introducing fresh oxygenated water. 8mm microbore is inadequate in my opinion, and susceptible to blockages.

    Who removed the cover? - I’m guessing yourself?
     
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  4. AkiraDIY

    AkiraDIY

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    Yeah, I removed the cover as I could hear occasional drips and wanted to check it wasn't leaking. Just condensate dripping into the boiler trap I think, don't see pooling water anywhere.

    The boiler was originally up at high level but the old flue core was only 100mm and the new flue was 110mm, so they had to move it down after hours of struggling to widen the old core with no success. The old boiler was plugged into a socket coming off a fused spur directly next to it and they left me to relocate the old socket and used the nearest socket available. I think they left it messy cause they were lazy and knew I was going to change it later anyhow. Debating wiring it directly into the fused spur but probably won't, easier to just move the socket and neaten the wiring.

    My flat is old so the gas pipe is 15mm throughout. He told me that there's enough flow during full gas demand so it's not an issue but I should consider changing to 22mm pipe when I get the money and time. The microbore pipe was also preexisting and I haven't had any issues with blockages yet. Although one rad is full of sludge and will need to be removed and flushed in the garden at some point.

    I plan to add inhibitor but think it would be better to do once my system is clean and I'm not flushing a liter of black bitty crud water out the Spirotech every couple of days. Is a mains water flush going to improve things or should I just leave it alone and add inhibitor?
     
  5. OvertonPlumber

    OvertonPlumber

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    You cannot moan about the quality of an install without telling us what the boiler is and how much it cost and how long it took.
    My point is if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. People want things cheap cheap , but then moan and grown over the cost.
    I could of fitted a decent boiler with a powerflush a proper spirotech mb3 (yours is the non magnetic version its half the price of real one) with a 7 or ten year gaurentee but i would of been £400 or £500 more than the rough guy.
    I would of also wired the boiler fitted a wireless room thermostat and an outdoor semsor to comply with boilerplus regulations.
     
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  6. pete50

    pete50

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    I don't about the plumbing aspect of that but the installation is a f****** disaster. Even if you got that load of bollo for cheap it's still an absolute mess. But what I did notice is the plug top. The cable should be cut so that the outside insulation can be clamped by the strain relief clamp inside the plug top. Whoever installed that mess has just left the three internal conductors hanging outside the plug top. Highly dangerous.
     
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  7. CBW

    CBW

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    Also just noticed the earth look so like it wouldn’t be the last to be disconnected :eek::eek:
     
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  8. dormermike

    dormermike

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    That is a rough and potentially dangerous installation. The poster above mentioning pay peanuts get monkeys - well I've had gas safe registered people not know how to wire a plug so I'm not sure the cost alone is a fair indicator of quality.
     
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  9. AkiraDIY

    AkiraDIY

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    No need to be so aggressive mate, I paid £1500 and it's a Vokera Easiheat 25C and it took him a day to do it. He gave me the sales BS about how the filter is one of the best, solid brass, no leaks, blah blah blah. I got a sneaking suspicion it was whatever he had in his van, recycled from an old job. It doesn't look new by any means. Cheap boiler and filter for what I don't believe to be a peanuts cost. Price has nothing to do with the quality of workman that you get. Pay top dollar and you can still get a cowboy.

    Anyhow, I'm not moaning about the shoddy work, I'm asking how to fix the corners that he cut, such as flushing the system. I'd like to know if a mains water flush will clear enough crud to be worthwhile or if I should just add inhibitor and leave well alone.

    The wiring and installing a trap will be sorted before the new year. Got some twin & earth cable arriving soon to move the socket and I'll wire the plug properly then.
     
    Last edited: 27 Dec 2019
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  11. OvertonPlumber

    OvertonPlumber

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    I wasn't being aggressive I'm answering your post!!.
    Ouch you paid £1500 for a boiler costing £500
    Filter 65
    Pipe + fittings £50
    Chemicals £0

    £615
    1 day labour wot £280

    £895

    Profit. £505!!!!

    You got screwed.. Whats the benchmark look like and hows your certificate of installation compliance??
     
  12. dormermike

    dormermike

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    So your point about "pay peanuts get monkeys" was presumptive to say the least.
     
  13. AkiraDIY

    AkiraDIY

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    benchmark? The commissioning checklist has been filled in but I don't think it's worth the paper it's written on. Claims Fernox cleaner and inhibitor was used which I know for a fact wasn't. I know I got screwed but I'm not concerned about that, dwelling on it isn't going to get my money back. They know they have you over a barrel when your boiler gives up the ghost 3 weeks before Christmas.

    I just want to fix the corners that were cut so this boiler will last and I'm certain having a system full of magnetite isn't going to do that. So my question still stands, is a mains water flush going to be worthwhile or do I risk blocking the microbore pipe? Can the Spirotech be used as a drain point and fill point for backflushing?
     
    Last edited: 27 Dec 2019
  14. OvertonPlumber

    OvertonPlumber

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    No he still paid peanuts. A decent combi would cost £1200 with the vat (materials)
    So £1500 is still cheap he got a monkey who screwed him as he did a rough job, didn't flush it properly, didn't put auto air vents and most probably left it with low working pressure on the gas which would invalidate the warranty.
    Not sure how low Vokera allow but 15mm is going to leave it too low on a condensing boiler.
     
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  15. AkiraDIY

    AkiraDIY

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    What's done is done, cost is now irrelevant. According to the commissioning checklist, Gas Inlet Pressure is 17 mbar and 16 mbar at maximum rate. I think 20 mbar is the recommended for Vokera, so upgrading that pipe is another thing for the to do list.

    Still, I ask again. Is a mains water flush going to be worthwhile or do I risk blocking the microbore pipe? Can the Spirotech be used as a drain point and fill point for backflushing? Or do I just add inhibitor and leave alone?
     
  16. denso13

    denso13

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    Is it working ok? If so, add inhibitor and leave it alone.
     
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  17. Gasguru

    Gasguru

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    Contact Gas-Safe and ask for an inspection...they will force the installer to correct all the gas faults (at no cost to you) and keep an eye on him.
    We have to compete with these idiots.
    At the moment several aspects of the installation are non compliant and potentially unsafe and regardless of cost it should be legal.
     
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