size and length of steels?

Discussion in 'General DIY' started by robmorphet, 8 Apr 2003.

  1. robmorphet

    robmorphet

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    Outstanding info from you guys before, thanks.

    Here's the next one.

    Converting the loft. I did the drawings etc and PP has been passed.

    Does anyone know how to work out the steel size, from width? I assume that the roof tyoe will also need to be taken in to consideration - its concrete tiles (1970's bungalow type).

    A conversion table or web iste would be great. Also - can I join these or do they have to go in as one unit?

    Pls excuse the typo errors - pls someone invent a chat room with Spellcheck!!!!

    Thanks in advance guys

    rob.
     
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  3. masona

    masona

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    Normally you would need a roof & weight calculation done from your drawing which I don't think we can do ourselves. I had mine done by a local planning engineer.If your drawing been passed the steel size details should be on there and normally the building inspector will discuss the details with you as it is for your safety.I know people are out there who don't bother with this & may have trouble selling their home in the future.I not trying to put you off,thought I tell you before you start! Good luck.
     
  4. robmorphet

    robmorphet

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    When the plans were drawn and proposed, no-one asked anything about steel sizes, or in fact about the room sizes etc. The drawing I did were fairly basic (by hand and from a degree in auto eng about 10 years ago!).

    Are there any sites out there that can do the calcs?
     
  5. kostello

    kostello

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    you can downloafd an evaluation copy of and steel & timber beam program from www.sda.co.uk
    its very good if you know what you are doing.
    in the long run it is probably easier and cheaper (maybe?) to get an engineert to do the calculations and submit the drawings to building control.
    once they are approved (about 6 weeks) you can crack on.
    or you can do the work on a building notice but this has the disadvantage that if you do something that is not preapproved you may have to rectify it if building control won't pass it.
    in my experience ( i've done jobs both ways) getting the plans passed first has worked out best every time as there are no hidden extras.
    one job i did on a building notice cost me £1000 extra.
    i learnt the hard way


    aleks
     
  6. masona

    masona

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    Calulations cost me approx £350 and a thick reports (very boring).After that the building inspector wouldn't let me use steel and end up putting 9"x3" joist in.Depending what area you are from I had to pay a one off fee to building inspector to come as many times I want him to.I would personally talk with the building inspector as he might reject some of your work and waste your time/money.I'm a bit confused when the drawing been passed and not knowing the room span size! Your loft conversion does not need planning permission if you're not altering the roof size but still need building permisson.
     
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  8. robmorphet

    robmorphet

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    I needed PP as the house had already been extended beyond the max permissable size. (We've added a conservatory too).

    Its a bungalow, and the roof space is approx 2.8m at the ridge, 6.5m wide and 11m front to back.

    Obviously the drwaings were to scale, but no structural specs were stated (as I haven't a clue).

    As I have PP, why do I need buliding regs approval too? Its my house and when I've bought houses in the past no-one has ever mentioned BA, only PP?

    Whats the legal stance?
     
  9. masona

    masona

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    Okay,I might have confused you.When Planning permission been granted,you have to comply with the Building Regulation from your local Building Control Department.This you don't apply for.I know its your house, but you can't just do what you like!!
    Example :
    How do you know the footings will take the weight of the steel structure and joists which will increase weight on the bearing points? (this is where the weight & calculation come in unless your planning department is happy with structure of your house)as you said no details on the drawing for steel size.
    Is the stairscase going to be in the lounge,if so you will need a escape window (say like a Velux windows) approx 1.100 metre from the fascia board,this is so the fireman can reach the person from the ladder.The idea of this is,if the fire starts in the lounge you cannot go down the stairscase.
    What sort of ventilation are you having in the room & roof vents?
    What are the joists sizes and how far apart?
    What are the thickness of the plasterboards etc ?
    This is an example what building regs are for health & safely.
    Planning drawing depending on your area is normally open 3/5 years and then updated unless work already started.Normally a building notice to your local Council at least 48hr before commencement of work,so the building inspector can monitor your work etc.When I did my room in the roof I didn't need planning permission,but must comply to building regs and I know I can sell it on with the correct paper work details which had been passed by the building inspector.
    Hopes this help.
     
  10. kostello

    kostello

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    i've spent more time than i care to rtemember explaining to my clients the difference between planning and building control.
    in essence the planning office cares what it looks like
    the building control people care if its going to stand up.
    generally you are granted planning permission and then get the structural plans done after.

    once the plans are done and passed you can get quotes etc..

    aleks
     
  11. robmorphet

    robmorphet

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    thanks guys - Its makes sense now!

    Trip to the local town hall then! ;-(

    Rob
     
  12. kostello

    kostello

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    you can download the forms for building control from your local council website

    aleks
     
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