smooth Render banding around windows

[grayl]

Hi
I have just bought a new house to renovate, I am a joiner by trade and like to do most work myself if posssible.
The house has upvc windows that need replacing, my problem is they have been fitted only a couple of inches back from the external face and the rough cast ( dry dash ) has been simply rounded into the reveals.
I want to set the new windows further back to give at least a 4 inch reveal and rather than patch up the existing dash i would like to smooth render them and also put a 3 to 4 inch band around the outsides of the reveals on the face wall, ( hope this makes sense ). I would want to use stainless corner beads for 90 degree corner and was thinking of forming the external band on top of the existing dash ( it is solid ) and a temporary battern fixed to the wall.
Not sure if this is the best way and was looking for some advice
Hope this makes sense.

 

[Micilin]

This will work fine - you can use a batten or beads (or combine the two.)

It is a good solution, and will look better than patching up the existing.

Do you need help with specifics? eg 'Nib out' battens with scratch coat ?

 

[grayl]

This will work fine - you can use a batten or beads (or combine the two.)

It is a good solution, and will look better than patching up the existing.

Do you need help with specifics? eg 'Nib out' battens with scratch coat ?

I think i should be ok as using a corner bead will allow me to finish the reveals separatly to the face bands. I will knock of the reveals and scratch then finish coat them, i was thinking for the external band that as it will be over existing dash that i could do this in one coat as they only have to be 3/4 inch thick or there abouts, I would use a good SBR bonding coat first, Does this seem reasonable ???????????

Thanks for your very promt reply Micilin

 

[Micilin]

I would use the sbr slurry to bond on, making sure nothing lose or dusty underneath.

However, this slurry may stick to the batten so you will need to oil them first and clean them off before rendering . Also make sure the slurry is thick enough not to run down behind the batten as the dash will mean this will have lots of little gaps. Any splashes need to be washed off ASAP , by its nature it's messy stuff.

I would still give a scratch coat so that you can have a thinner finish coat - 8-10 mm is less likely to sag or crack than a 3/4" ( 19mm) one.

Also , you can fill out to the battens (just nibbing out to their edge in a kind of arc so that none of it will protrude thru the final coat) with the scratch coat .

This means they can be removed when you have rubbed up the face doing your final coat and you then can tidy it up better, rather than leaving the battens on until it is all done , and risk them breaking off a bit of finished work. You will have a hard edge behind the batten, not fresh soft render.

You must oil the battens before applying render ( ie the faces that are touching the render)

 

[grayl]

Thanks for taking the time to give me your expert advice I really appreciate it.
I probably wont be doing this job for a while until money allows for new windows but i now know how.

Thanks again

 

[Micilin]

Thanks for taking the time to give me your expert advice I really appreciate it.
I probably wont be doing this job for a while until money allows for new windows but i now know how.

Thanks again

Not a problem , good luck with the job when you get round to it.

 

[grandwizard]

try using easibead they are made for this http://www.easibead.com/

 

[Micilin]

try using easibead they are made for this http://www.easibead.com/[/QUOTE]

Not seen them before, they are a clever idea - how much do they cost ?

Can you cut them with snips or do you use a mitre saw /mitre box/hacksaw?

Drawback seems to be you have to render the outside return, whereas with a batten this is not required, and you'll have to take car cutting the mitres and squaring them up.

Is the black mock tudor in the graphic done with these?

 

[grayl]

try using easibead they are made for this http://www.easibead.com/[/QUOTE]

These look great especially for someone like me who is not so experienced as some of you guys, I may try these on one window to see how well they work as Micilin says they will have to be cut carefully but that should be easy enough with a mitre saw ( maybe use an old blade )

Thanks for this

 

[grayl]

try using easibead they are made for this http://www.easibead.com/[/QUOTE]

Not seen them before, they are a clever idea - how much do they cost ?

Can you cut them with snips or do you use a mitre saw /mitre box/hacksaw?

Drawback seems to be you have to render the outside return, whereas with a batten this is not required, and you'll have to take car cutting the mitres and squaring them up.

Is the black mock tudor in the graphic done with these?

I just watched the video and it appears the fake timbers on the mock tudor house are done with these. It shows the mortar being pumped in but im sure it can be done by hand. looks good as i say for someone without much experience like me.

Thanks Micilin

 

[Micilin]

You're very welcome, but it was grandwizard that came up with the hi tech solution!

 

[roughcaster]

Drawback seems to be you have to render the outside return, whereas with a batten this is not required,

I agree with your comment on rendering the outside returns Micilin. It could be a messy job too, especially if using it against finished brickwork etc,, also, you would still need to get that outside edges "square",, (freehand),, without messing up the brickwork.
To a skilled tradesman/craftsman, doing a rendered band the traditional way is "not" anywhere near so awkward as the video would have you believe.
New products that come along to make the job supposedly easier and faster, are not always better. I prefer to see a totally cement rendered band in it's entirety, and not see plastic/metal strips down corners and edges, but then that's just me. I couldn't see products like that being used on listed/historical buildings etc either. Good luck to the people who make these products, and i'm sure there's a market out there, but i'll stick to the traditional method. I'm not knocking this at all, but the thing that annoys me is, when something new, metal/plastic etc comes along, it seems to want to make any traditional, centuries old method of doing things, look slow, awkward, outdated and clumsy,,, which,, to many who are skilled in their craft, it is not.
Mini rant over.

 

[grandwizard]

you can mask brickwork to stop mess

 

[roughcaster]

you can mask brickwork to stop mess

Well i know you can GW, but doing the bands using timber/battens, you don't have to go anywhere near the brickwork for there to be a mess. As Micilin said, nibbing out to the full depth of the batten with the scratch coat, gives you the finished thickness of the edges, making them joint free when the top coat rendering is finished and the battens have been very "carefully" removed. A little tidying up then is all that's needed.
In the video it did look a very messy process, because it was being "pumped/sprayed" onto the small window bands, but by using a hawk and trowel, i suppose the mess could be kept to a minimum. The finished job did look ok, but as i said, i'd rather stick to the traditional method.

 

[grandwizard]

trust me they look good when done