To spur, or not to spur, and a part P question....

[TicklyT]

Just planning things at the moment....

We would like a new socket fitted in a kitchen/dining room.
There is an extension to the side of the house built along the wall where we would like the new socket fitted, with a socket directly the other side of the new socket location.
The extension electrics are fed from it's own CU.

It would be easy enough to drill through the wall behind the socket in the extension, and chase a box in on the dining room side of the wall, but....

1. The new socket would be about 5 Metres from the kitchen sink and cooker etc. For the purposes of part P etc. in the case of a kitchen/dining room, where does the kitchen end?

2. The new socket would be fed from a different circuit to the other sockets in the room, but would be the only socket in the dining area.

3. Is it better to spur from the existing socket, or incorporate the socket into the ring?
a. if incorporating into the ring, is it acceptable to joint one cable with choc blocks behind the existing socket?
b. if spurred, is it acceptable to fit a 3-gang socket incorporating a 13A fuse on the spur?

4. Should the cable(s) be protected where they pass through the cavity wall, which is now an interior wall?

 

[securespark]

For the purposes of part P etc. in the case of a kitchen/dining room, where does the kitchen end?

3m from the edge of the kitchen cabinets.

3. Is it better to spur from the existing socket, or incorporate the socket into the ring?

Better to make it on the ring, but you have to weigh up the ease of either method.

a. if incorporating into the ring, is it acceptable to joint one cable with choc blocks behind the existing socket?

Yes, but have you got the space? Better to crimp, but whatever you do, space will be at a premium, unless a deeper box is fitted.

b. if spurred, is it acceptable to fit a 3-gang socket incorporating a 13A fuse on the spur?

Yes. You can have as many outlets as you like, as long as they are all protected by one 13A fuse.

4. Should the cable(s) be protected where they pass through the cavity wall, which is now an interior wall?

You could put in a piece of 25mm conduit or wastepipe if you wanted, but I don't think it is strictly necessary.

 

[TicklyT]

Thanks Secure.

Does anyone have any comments on having sockets on two different circuits in the room?

 

[RF Lighting]

It is not really ideal, but you say there is a good bit of seperation between the two, so it should not be a massive problem.

In commercial environments it is common to label sockets and switches with the circuit number which feeds that particular accesory. You could fix a label to the socket front, to warn others of the different circuit.

(the label does not need to be massive, just big enough to read)

 

[Pensdown]

Are we getting confused between different circuits in one room and different phases in one room?

 

[DESL]

Are we getting confused between different circuits in one room and different phases in one room?

both happen in an industrial installation but do need identifying labels as to which way off which board they're connected to. (AFAIK)

 

[Pensdown]

I agree but here we are talking about a domestic Dinning room? I think RF is dreaming he's still at work

 

[securespark]

Yeah, I wondered that.

If two accessories on different phases are simultaneously accessible, they must be labelled with a 415V warning.

If two accessories on different circuits are sited in the same area, it would be helpful to know, but there is no requirement.

Even if two different circuits are in the same enclosure as long as they are on the same phase it is OK.

 

[Spark123]

I thought that too Secure.
When you read into it though, the regulation refers to equipment with nominal voltages (Uo) exceeding 230v requiring a notice. Uo is, by definition, nominal phase to earth voltage for TN systems. Although there is 400v apparent between two phases (you'd have to be unlucky to get a 400v shock!!), the phase to earth voltage from any of the phases is still 230v.
I am not saying it is wrong to mark voltages on items, best practice and common sense should also be used. The iee regs should be used as a minimum standard.

 

[JohnD]

But there is also this possibility:

"Turn the power off, Betty, I want to repair the wires on the fridge"

"Click"

"Is that off?"

"Yes, the kitchen radio's gone off"

"Fizz"

Perhaps more likely in the home?