1. Visiting from the US? Why not try DIYnot.US instead? Click here to continue to DIYnot.US.
    Dismiss Notice

Veneered MDF

Discussion in 'Wood / Woodwork / Carpentry' started by loftus75, 27 Jul 2004.

  1. loftus75

    loftus75

    Joined:
    11 Dec 2002
    Messages:
    75
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Has anyone had experience of working with double sided veneered MDF. The stuff I'm working with is a quality wood veneered product used for furniture. It has a very fine layer of beech veneer, perhaps as thin as a hair. It is actually wood and not laminate before anyone asks:).

    I'm particularly interested in the finishing methods used, i.e., did you sand seal before working with the product? What finish did you use. Did you need to prep the material in anyway? Sanding is out of the question on the untreated surface, so how did you prep the surface? Did you have any problems that I should be aware of?

    Thanks in advance for any help offered:)
     
  2. Sponsored Links
  3. Dewy

    Dewy

    Joined:
    9 Aug 2004
    Messages:
    193
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I imagine you have had no replies so far because you haven't said what you are making, how you will joint it etc.
    You also made me giggle with your 2nd sentence
    Since when was any kind of MDF a 'quality' product?
    It has its uses but 'quality'? NO.
     
  4. TexMex

    TexMex

    Joined:
    8 Jul 2004
    Messages:
    1,525
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Location:
    Essex
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Dewy, that's not fair. I think Loftus was saying it's MDF covered with Quality Wood veneer. ;)

    Rather like that drink that calls itself 55% pure orange juice. How can the orange juice be "pure", if it's been adulterated by the other 45%.
     
  5. loftus75

    loftus75

    Joined:
    11 Dec 2002
    Messages:
    75
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I take it Dewy you've not done much work with MDF or with woodwork, thanks for your reply but I was actually looking for a reply from someone that actually knew something about the subject. Thank you TexMex for pointing out the obvious to Dewy, you are quite right the product is covered in a quality veneer 1mm thick.

    For Dewy's information, there are times when MDF is the preferred material because of it's stability. As to what I'm making, I don't believe the question asked how to build something, it asks about approaches for preparation and finishing of thinly veneered material. As it stands I have the information I need now. I suspect I didn't recieve an answer because no one looking this post had experience of working with this particular material.

    As a matter of interest, I'm building a full scale replica of the Titanic :D
     
  6. masona

    masona

    Joined:
    5 Jan 2003
    Messages:
    12,885
    Thanks Received:
    125
    Location:
    Essex
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Agreed, we got to understand this is a DIY forum, sometime I don't write the way it should be but I fully understand what loftus75 is saying.
    loftus75 is not asking for advice on making, only on preparation for finish.

    Dewy, welcome to the forum but please don't put people off writing here, I'm not perfect either.

    loftus75,

    See this, only has a quick look and lot of info.
     
  7. Dewy

    Dewy

    Joined:
    9 Aug 2004
    Messages:
    193
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I only use MDF for making router jigs and as far as woodworking is concerned I am still learning a lot having only started in 1955 by 1st making a puppet theatre followed by wooden swords and taught myself how to make half lap joints so the guards wouldn't be offset to the hilt.
    As to the other comments.
    This question remained unanswered since 27th July but as soon as a perceived negative answer is posted everyone jumps in.
    My reply was not intended to be negative.
    Quite the reverse.
    Finishing often depends on the methods used to make an article or am I still working in the days of my cabinetmaker grandfather who passed many of his tips to me?

    P.S. loftus75 I wouldn't recommend MDF for a full scale model of the Titanic.
    MDF will disintegrate with the water and pressure at those depths. ;)
     
  8. loftus75

    loftus75

    Joined:
    11 Dec 2002
    Messages:
    75
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I suppose the moral of this story is only post when you have a suggestion that answers the question, this way people won't misunderstand your intention. I try to work on the principle the people I am replying to have as much, if not more experience than myself, and they may only be asking a question to see if anyone else has come up with a new or innovative idea. This way I avoid sounding superior and offensive.

    Many people in this forum have considerable knowledge of a variety of subjects. While I have no experience of building a puppet theatres or swords, I have renovated a number of houses, built a wide selection of furniture in a variety of materials, hold qualifications as an electrician, an honours degree in psychology and HNC in electronics, a Dip. in clinical work and I can cook. However, all this experience and knowledge does not mean I know everything about everything, and I am not too proud to ask my neighbour if I think he knows something that would be helpful, I like to think my neighbour feels the same if I can help him.

    I accept Dewy was not trying to be offensive, perhaps he might try modifying his posts to make that clear in the future. If you are new to forums Dewy, you might like to learn from this experience.

    The answer to the question was, for those interested. Edge the boards in a matching veneer and trim, ideally with a veneer edge trimmer, use flour paper if you can get it, if not 1200 grit wet and dry before the first coat of sanding sealer, then between all subsequent coats. It's best to leave any shelf holes until all the coats have been applied.

    As to the structure. It is a 6 piece cabinet used in a transitional position which dictates that it should not conflict with furniture in two adjoining spaces. MDF was chosen because the house has underfloor heating which means drying out during the winter and humidity in the summer might cause too much movement in solid timber. Equally cost was a consideration, though it's worth noting veneered MDF is not that much cheaper than the equivalent hardwood.

    The structure will be assembled using dry biscuits and glued edges. The nature of the assembly is such that rabbit joints were not necessary. The assembly will also include two glass display cabs with LED lighting.

    The complexity of this particular assembly took several weeks to design because the position it will occupy is asymmetrical. I used Turbo Cad to do this, which allowed me to create a complete build including joints even before I picked up a tool. It also allowed me to generate cut sheets that my supplier could use which showed grain direction and minimised waste on the project.

    If Dewy has any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask ;)
     
  9. Jasonb

    Jasonb

    Joined:
    20 Aug 2004
    Messages:
    2,420
    Thanks Received:
    94
    Location:
    Surrey
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Loftus

    I quite often use veneered MDF which typically has a 0.5mm layer on both sides.

    I usually finish it withBarfords Aquacote which is a waterbourne lacquer and available in matt, satin and gloss.

    Hand sand with 320g silicon carbide paper before and inbetween each of three coats, hear are some beech wardrobe doors finished as above

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/EnidWardrobe2.jpg

    Jason
     
  10. Sponsored Links
  11. big-all

    big-all

    Joined:
    12 Jul 2004
    Messages:
    18,986
    Thanks Received:
    1,491
    Location:
    Surrey
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    heeelllooo jason

    another brilliant job :eek: :eek:

    if jason says it it right :D :D

    big all
     
  12. Jasonb

    Jasonb

    Joined:
    20 Aug 2004
    Messages:
    2,420
    Thanks Received:
    94
    Location:
    Surrey
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Thanks big all

    Forgot to mention the reccomended way to apply it is with a paint pad as this does not introduce many air bubbles, but I have used a brush for small areas and mouldings.

    The other advantage with waterbased products is that they do not yellow the wood as much as oil base so are ideal for light woods such as sycamore and maple.

    Jason
     
  13. loftus75

    loftus75

    Joined:
    11 Dec 2002
    Messages:
    75
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Thanks for the suggestion Jasonb, nice doors, the photo looks as though you've given them a washed lime look, if so a nice touch. The suggestion I use pads instead of brushes is also helpful. 320g sounds a bit harsh for the effect I'm looking for, still many thanks for the post.
     
  14. Jasonb

    Jasonb

    Joined:
    20 Aug 2004
    Messages:
    2,420
    Thanks Received:
    94
    Location:
    Surrey
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I think its just an effect of the light they are just plain steamed beech veneer for the centre panels, solid beech down each side.

    The finish is as smooth as any sprayed acid cat finish so I doubt you will get anything smoother, 320g is getting very fine and I see little point in going down to 400g.

    Here's some oak items with the same finish:

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/pittplace/

    Jason
     
  15. loftus75

    loftus75

    Joined:
    11 Dec 2002
    Messages:
    75
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Nice site Jasonb, and some very impressive pieces. On the wardrobe doors it looks as thought you've routed a V line which gives the doors a nice moulded effect. Are the doors MDF and if so how did you manage to get this effect without showing the underlayer of MDF?

    For the finish I had intended using cellulose sanding sealer which I've found to be fairly hardwearing and gives a matt finish unless polished, it also goes off very fast which allows me to get several coats on in one day. I've also found that bubbles are less likely. Having said this, based on your pictures I do like the the finish you've used.
     
  16. Jasonb

    Jasonb

    Joined:
    20 Aug 2004
    Messages:
    2,420
    Thanks Received:
    94
    Location:
    Surrey
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    The doors have a central section of 19mm V. MDF, each side has a piece of solid beech 90x22 fininished size glued on using a full length plywood loose tong.

    The joint at the front was embelished by routing a 3mm deep x 12mm wide groouve and glueing in a "D" shaped beech moulding that I ran out. the edges of the doors are rounded over, 6mm r on front, 3mm r on rear.

    I assume that you are working on something fairly large by the fact you are using 8x4 sheets, the only thing with celulose s.s. is that it can drag if you are trying to cover a large area as it,s hard to keep a wet edge. I only tend to use it for boxes and woodturning prior to using friction polish.

    Here's a shot of the wardrobe insides if your interested.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/EnidWardrobe3.jpg

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Wood turning/

    Jason
     
  17. loftus75

    loftus75

    Joined:
    11 Dec 2002
    Messages:
    75
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Thanks for your prompt reply Jasonb, The cabinets are only H 500 X W 800 max, some are a smaller width. But your point about dragging is worth noting and I'll take that into consideration.

    Did you train formally or are you self taught? Either way, your work is very impressive. I'd be interested to know when developing a piece what method of planning/drawings do you use.
     
Loading...

Share This Page