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Wall Ties Required

Discussion in 'Building' started by phillsmit3, 5 Sep 2014.

  1. phillsmit3

    phillsmit3

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    I have an old house that doesn't look like it has any wall ties. Someone did a survey and couldn't see any.

    I had big horizontal cracks in the render that indicated wall tie problems.

    Knocked render off and there was pebble dash underneath (showing no horizontal cracks)

    Knocked peddle dash off and there is no cracking on the brickwork.

    The wall is perfectly straight and is prob 200 yrs old.

    My question is
    If my really old wall has no cracks and is perfectly straight do i need to get the wall ties installed just because it doesn't have any?

    I am going to be re rendering the house.
     
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  3. kbdiy

    kbdiy

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    If it's 200 yrs old then highly unlikely that it will have, or need, wall ties anyway. Cavity construction was used in some Victorian buildings but didn't really get going until the 1930's.

    I would have thought your walls were most likely solid. What is the thickness from inside to out?
     
  4. phillsmit3

    phillsmit3

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    Thanks - I think there is a cavity according to "petre fox" who did the survey but am unsure of the wall thickness. The wall is very thick to the eye but the internal walls have been built on some kind of framework I think. They are hollow when you knock on it.
     
  5. kbdiy

    kbdiy

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    Perhaps it has been dry-lined, hence the hollow sound when tapped? As you has exposed some of the brickwork what is the brick bond like? That may give some clue as to the actual wall structure.
     
  6. tony1851

    tony1851

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    As kb, very unlikely to have wall ties at that age.

    You have a thick wall? Quite often in better quality work of that period, the walls would be built of 9" solid brick, and lined internally with studwork and lath-and-plaster. Or the lining may simply be later.

    Prominent horizontal cracks in render can sometimes suggest sulpahate attack of the mortar joints, but unlikely in your case if the pebbledash is sound.

    Maybe the horizontal joints are just surface shrinkage cracks, possibly produced by the wall being rendered in lifts on separate days, using slightly different mixes?

    Just fill, paint and forget.
     
  7. phillsmit3

    phillsmit3

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    Here are some pictures. I think it is just standard brick construction.[/img]
     
  8. ree

    ree

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    Just a guesstimate, but that house doesn't look to be 200 yrs old.

    Perhaps there's been some confusion here - a line of rusted wall ties in a cavity wall will create a definite horizontal crack in the bed of the external skin.

    The wall needs measuring, and why not remove a discreet brick or use a scope to see inside the wall.

    Why would render have been applied over the historic pebble dash?
    Why has the render failed?

    Please quote exactly what it said on the (RICS ?) Surveyor's report?
     
  9. tony1851

    tony1851

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    How would you determine its' age from that pic?
     
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  11. AronSearle

    AronSearle

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    Styles, and types.

    It's not really my bag, but I know people that do it.

    I wouldn't look at that and think it is 200 years old, or I would assume more modern extensions that maybe do have cavity walls.

    But like I said, it's not really within my comfort zone to claim I know.
     
  12. phillsmit3

    phillsmit3

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    I have not looked at the deeds as they always stayed at my solicitor but 3 houses used to be 1 big house and they are all listed. The house on the end has a coat of arms and was built in 1779 or something like that. However you could be correct the 3 houses have had a lot of messing around with over the years and the back of the house could be a lot newer.
    I think I might have figured it out. If you look at the brick pattern i think the walls are tied together with bricks on their end. There seems to be a line of bricks going the other way every 7 ft or something like that. It annoys me that "petre fox" spelt wrong tried to sell me wall ties when they must have seen the bricks when they put the scope in.

    What do you lot think?
     
  13. tony1851

    tony1851

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    Typical example of English Garden Wall bond; one course of headers to five courses of stretchers.

    The mortar looks to be 'black ash; mortar - common in the north and midlands from the mid=19th c. onwards.
     
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  14. phillsmit3

    phillsmit3

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    Think you are correct. I know nothing about mortar but it is black in colour and ashy. So do you think I am safe not getting the wall ties done?
     
  15. ree

    ree

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    OP,

    perhaps you would post pics of the frontage of your house, and the other house frontages that make up the terrace. Its usually a very good indicator of age.

    Where were pics 1. 3. & 4. taken?

    The property to the left appears to be much lower than yours so its doubtful that it was ever part of one house with your house.

    Nothing in what i see or in what you are doing would indicate that this is a listed building.

    The salesperson who attempted to sell you cavity ties for a solid wall is part of those dreary fantasists who lie for a living - pretty sad.
     
  16. kbdiy

    kbdiy

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    I believe English Garden Wall is 1 in 3/ headers to stretchers whereas 1 in 5 is known as American bond.
     
  17. theoldun

    theoldun

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    English garden wall bond . Three course stretcher, One course header.
    Scottish bond Five course stretcher. One course header..
    American bond. Depending on area where you are working, three to nine course stretcher one course header.
    You could be right about the muck Tony, :eek: so have a drink on us and will square you up if we ever meet. :D :D
    Regards oldun
     
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