wiring question

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:D hello
My first post here, i would like some advice.
i installed a socket in a cupboard for a freezer, i ran a spur cable from socket in another room directly behind cupboard, i now need to extend the new socket to accomondate a fridge & freezer in the kitchen.
Would it be better to extend the spur socket and fit a double socket near appliances (running cable along skirting) or run a double extention cable from fridge & freezer to single socket in cupboard?

Thanks
Fetty
 
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You cannot do either.
The socket in the cupboard is a spur (I am assuming it is connected to a the socket in the other room which is part of a RING circuit?)
As it is a spur you cannot add other spurs to it.
You could either:
1. integrate the socket in the cupboard and make it part of the ring and spur off that to add the other socket or
2. replace the socket in the cupboard with a fused spur, you could then connect another socket for the cupboard and a double socket for the fridge freezer. In this case you will be limited by the max fuse size in the fused spur (13amps).

PS as this is work in a kitchen you need to notify your local building control and pay the relavent fees. Or get in a qual spark to do it and notify.
 
Hello

The socket in cupboard is a spur which is connected to a the socket in the other room which is part of a RING circuit. Could i remove the spur and run cable through wall into kitchen for the 2 appliances?

thanks
 
I take it you are not going to use the socket in the cupboard just extend the spur to accommodate a twin socket in the kitchen. That is ok but it is notifiable work to add sockets in kitchens.
 
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Well then you a c0ck end who is happy to break the law.

That is you choice, but do not come on here advising others to break the law, especially when the question was from a new member.

The whole point of these forums is to advise people how to do the job safely, properly and legally.
 
Well, I agree that was a dumb thing to say but it is frustrating that this forum appears more like a professionals forum rather than DIY and all you get for advice is "get an electrician" ie. people who want to propagate their own trade which pi**es me off. If people have posted on here its usually because they want to do it themselves so telling them how to do it safely and legally is the best advice. I asked a simple question recently and all I got was a bunch of asses giving me jip for wanting to do it myself. My advice-if you can't get the right advice from here try somewhere else. You could ask an electricain who did free quotes to come round and tell you exactly what he was going to do and then not hire him!!
 
who want to propagate their own trade which pi**es me off. If people have posted on here its usually because they want to do it themselves so telling them how to do it safely and legally is the best advice.

Therein lies the issue.

As electricians registered to a professional body we are duty bound to supply accurate advise both technically and legally. As a further sense of 'duty' we also try to inform OP's about the danger to themselves and others using the electrics installed by unqualified persons who are unlikely to have all the skills (and equipment) to insure full safety during and after any work is done.

People to 'large' themselves up, often failing to understand basic test requirements and basic safety issues associated with 'playing' with power.
It's not uncommon for people to screw things up- how many failed lighting circuits do we see post here, after a simple fitting change when the OP haven't the skills to understand a bunch of neutrals, switched live and live in and out?

I would also defend all fellow idiots offering advise who quote Part P regs for notifiable works to the LBC. We have to notify, so why not the DIYer?

Simple things such as date stamped switches, socket and fittings. The use of new code wiring all allow identification of works done from 2005 onward.
Ignore our advise, have a serious issue with fire or injury- then when the installation is picked apart you will be nicked for not complying with the law and the regulations due to unsafe or incorrectly installed work.

Your then loose you house, either because it was burnt down or in the huge compensation claim that arises due to the person who is injured.

You've been told......... :rolleyes:

Finally, when you do sell the enhanced property and mention all that work done to improve it the purchaser will ask for Part P certs for the work done since 2005. Failing to produce the paperwork will mean failure to claim the work as a feature and the knocking down of the property price or the insistence of a PIR done by a 2391 qualified person- cost £300 and the remedial works highlighted on the PIR.
 
As electricians registered to a professional body we are duty bound to supply accurate advise both technically and legally. As a further sense of 'duty' we also try to inform OP's about the danger to themselves and others using the electrics installed by unqualified persons who are unlikely to have all the skills (and equipment) to insure full safety during and after any work is done.

Unfortunately it is not often communicated effectively without patronization and the level of “concern” electricial professionals have about the danger to diy’ers is not always done in a “concerned” manner leading me to believe a lot of it is insincere.

If you take the view that electric work should be done by no other than an electrician then the prescence of this forum on a DIY site is a paradox and all electricians should boycott it. Also having a "professional" do the job is no guarantee of having the work done correctly and I have certainly come into contact with a few registered cowboy electricians, both of who were over confident and fiddling with electrics live. I have 3 degrees and numerous post grad qualifications and certainly fancy myself more reliable in doing a simple job (that I can learn to do the right way from advice or a book) rather than some as*hol* who wants to get the job done quickly and get off home for tea. You could say that doing my own brakes on the car was dangerous to myself and others but I be annoyed if I was told I could no longer do them. Fair enough advise to do it in a legal way but leave it with the insincere over concerned manner

I don't think that there would be significant issues other than minor inconvenience when selling the house and there certainly wasn't when I sold mine in January or when I bought again and I informed solicitors about the minor electrics I had done in the loft. If they had tried to knock the price down i would have simply said NO.
 
I have 3 degrees

My father has 3 degrees, 1 language, 1 maths and a medical degree- he was a dental surgeon working in East Grinstead burns unit.

Electrically, he was a complete liability........



You could say that doing my own brakes on the car was dangerous to myself and others

Fortunately cars require MOT's- so although you can do such work, the quality of your work is subject to 3rd party investigation and check



Fair enough advise to do it in a legal way but leave it with the insincere over concerned manner

Fact- people die, houses get burnt down, insurance co investigates- illegal electrical work WILL invalidate home insurance policy for both material damage and also any 3rd party person damage such as death or injury.

Fact- I pay insurance each year to cover £5m of liability, I pay £450 a year for NICIEC registration which allows random audit of my work. Both are 'safety' mechanisms for my clients.

What safety, other than being good at reading do you employ before and during electrical works?

Fact I have £1000 of test tools and a further £80 a year calibration of those tools. How do you test your works for function and safety- because it works, doesn't mean there are not issues. Sincerely, how do you overcome this essential part of an electricians job?

I don't think that there would be significant issues other than minor inconvenience when selling the house and there certainly wasn't when I sold mine in January

The law will catch up, Part P and the HIP requirements are a marriage that will allow a potential new owner to insist that the required paperwork is in place for declared improvements.

Take the notifiable works of wet rooms (kitchen and bathrooms) and external works-

When you declare "I've land scaped the garden and provided flood and mood lighting", I've re-jigged the kitchen and provided a new final circuit for cooker and a general use radial or ring or when you've installed a electric shower, fan, shaver point and lighting to a bathroom" the purchaser can ask for certification.

When you don't have such, they will:-

* Ask for discounting
* Check with the LBC-who will chase you and take you to court
* Walk away
* Ask for a PIR at your cost

Such works could be considered in breech of sales conduct, if you sign the statutory declaration regarding the property condition of service.

Take an instance where you sell, leaving a design failure such as multiple taps off a spur. New resident plugs in the iron, the kettle and a electric heat source. Between the 3 devices weakness is created in your illegal and untested work.

They go to bed forgetting to turn the fire off and burn to death due to an electrical fire in the over stretched and failed wiring. So, you won't get your 4r5e sued because you dont live there anymore?? I don't think so.



electric work should be done by no other than an electrician then the prescence of this forum on a DIY site is a paradox and all electricians should boycott

Minor works, even when notifiable can be done by and competent person. Works beyond minor can be done and are always notifiable and as part of the LBC process will be inspected and tested by a 3rd party. The LBC direct or there chosen contractor. This provide a safety net for you as an amateur.

Advise is given to allow the poster knowledge regarding method, safety, legal and technical issues. This is a good thing to do.

You also mention having posted and having used this site as a resource for your own works, so explaining the benefit is not necessary- is it???

Paradox maybe- but please don't slate the guys that offer you advise when you ask.

Please also understand that most are qualified and have under gone training and work experience that allows them to make comment and offer advise that is sound. Most as professional have learnt to jump through the hoops of regulation, training, testing, qualification, certification at some expense.

You have none of this and you then come along slagging us off for having a high and mighty (legal and technical) stance. We are considering your safety, not protecting our jobs.
Good electricians have all the work they can ever do, get paid well and tend not to have to chase work- they get offered it, so it's not about me or anyone else wanting to do some rubbish bit of house bashing for you.

It's about safety, regulation, testing and certification end of.
 
t's about safety, regulation, testing and certification end of.

1. I didn't dispute work should be done legally, but the advice should be directed to a diy'er, its a diy forum and the work CAN be done legally if the proper channels are used. This should be the advice given not "get an electrician". Don't hijack it, get off it if you don't believe diy'ers should be given electrical advice. If you stay give advice without attitiude and then maybe people will listen. I know that I now feel determined to do my own work after getting such unhelpful replies. Its difficult to believe people are being sincere when the obvious end result of their diy'er bashing is a more determined attitude to do the work oneself.

2. Any mechanic will tell you an MOT is not worth much and certainly doesn't guarantee the car is safe. An MOT is also not required just after you've done work on the car

3. I get the impression that good and bad electricians are never out of work perhaps the good electricians have longer waiting times but then you have to wait 6 weeks before a job and how do you know how to pick a good one in the first place. Of course electrcians want to keep the demand high, the higher the demand the higher charges that can be made. I maybe convinced that there are some good electrcians out there but I'm afraid that most people who've I've had come and do work for me have messed it up somehow.

4.Any advice given with patronisation and attitude deserves to be slated.

5.I'm not some academic whose incompetent practically, I'm sure your father if he'd have applied himself properly would have been more than capable. If he was a decent dentist he must have had some degree of practical skills. Some of my colleagues complain about being useless at DIY but I believe its simply because they don't put the appropriate effort in. They seem to be able to learn any other complicated procedure when its work related. so why not simple DIY procedures.

6.This site is useful but it could do without the electrcian with an attitude, the worse the attitude usually the worse the advice and the worse the electrcian


Take home message:It CAN be done legally through the proper channels. Advise how to do it as safely as possible AND the proper channels to go through
 
I can't belive it, Mr Balenza lights blue touch paper and has retired from the scene.
Cool it guys, I wonder how the OP is getting on??
 
Launter, sorry to carry this on, but it seems to me that you have a real issue with tradesmen.

You came to this site asking for advice to carry out work which you are not competent to do, yet rather than accepting this advice which couldn't get any more impartial you get in a huff and have a go at the folks on this site who offer advice and information for free and in our spare time.

Unfortunatly you didn't get the answer you wanted, and were never going to get from anyone on this site. If you read through the pages of this site you will see the thousands upon thosands of helpful and informative replies to people who are attempting a job within their capability.
 

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