Fitting recessed LED lights on bathroom ceiling ??

[Kristoff28]

Howdi all.

Could do with a bit of information and a solution.

B&Q do a recessed blue led pack of lights which you can intall indoors or
outdoors using a plug in transformer.

Similar to these but indoor/outdoor ones
http://www.lightingsite.co.uk/displ...oductName/LED-Decking-Light-Kits---Pack-of-10

What i want to do is intall these in my bathroom ceiling to make it more
relaxing (I enjoy a bath after grafting all day) but they have to be plugged
into a mains socket.
They come with 5m of cable on each light which all connect to a junction
box which then goes to an indoor plug in transformer.

Thing is i dont have any mains sockets in the loft space, plus i dont fancy jumping up
into the loft to switch the lights on and off everytime.

I want to put them on a seperate switch next to my main bathroom light
switch so that i can have either one on or both together.

Is there a way i can do this ??? I know you cant wire them directly to the
mains but there must be another way of doing it as i have seen them in
a few bathrooms and on seperate on/off switches.

Any help would be much appreciated

Kris

 

[Chri5]

Even through they are very low load (under 100w ) it's consider naughty to have a mains socket off a light circuit, which is the only circuit you will have in the loft.

Having a wall wart / xformer means it needs to plug in to a mains socket.

What you could do is take a LNE supply from the light circuit and take that to a fused spur box, fuse at 1A. Then have a single socket of from the fused spur.

For switching live, a cable needs to interrupt the live between the fused spur and the socket and run down to the switch location- outside the bathroom!

Another method would be to source a suitable electronic transformer that matches the voltage and wattage and fit that in the standard way for a lighting fitting, having cut off the wall wart (and voided any warranty )

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What i want to do is intall these in my bathroom ceiling to make it more relaxing

Don't forget to apply for Building Regulations approval first...

 

[Kristoff28]

Even through they are very low load (under 100w ) it's consider naughty to have a mains socket off a light circuit, which is the only circuit you will have in the loft.

Having a wall wart / xformer means it needs to plug in to a mains socket.

What you could do is take a LNE supply from the light circuit and take that to a fused spur box, fuse at 1A. Then have a single socket of from the fused spur.

For switching live, a cable needs to interrupt the live between the fused spur and the socket and run down to the switch location- outside the bathroom!

Another method would be to source a suitable electronic transformer that matches the voltage and wattage and fit that in the standard way for a lighting fitting, having cut off the wall wart (and voided any warranty )

Hi Chris

Many thanks for your reply

I have done a small sketch below. Would something like this be ok ??

Untitled

• Kristoff28
• 26 Nov 2008
• 2

What cable will be ok to use ??? 1mm T&E or 2.5mm T&E
Also will i be ok to branch off the existing light circuit using a heavy duty junction box 20amp or 30amp to get to the fused spur like in the sketch
or is there another way ??

I also found a couple pf electronic transformers that go from 240v to 12dc.. Are these what you mean ???

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/48058...AC Low Voltage Electronic Transformer 20-60VA

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=29782

Sorry for all the questions LOL

cheers

Kris

 

[Chri5]

1.0mm is fine, although the 'standard' lighting cable tends to be 1.5mm.

If possible avoid junction boxes, could you run a wire back to an existing ceiling rose with LNE available ?

Since the equipment is already tested and comes as a pack, I think this avoids Part P notification for a bathroom (ELV fixed sets are exempt).

Without fullest details I can't say what xformer would suit- but using one would mean the work becomes Part P work.

As long as you restrict the work for the switch to the outside bathroom wall and that the electrical work is limited to the fused spur + a socket in the loft, then the lighting is 'simply' plug and play- thus you avoid Part P.

Awaiting the guns of BAS

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Since the equipment is already tested and comes as a pack, I think this avoids Part P notification for a bathroom

Nope.

(ELV fixed sets are exempt).

Not in bathrooms.

As long as you restrict the work for the switch to the outside bathroom wall and that the electrical work is limited to the fused spur + a socket in the loft, then the lighting is 'simply' plug and play- thus you avoid Part P.

You can't avoid Part P - whatever you do and wherever you do it it still has to comply with all the Building Regulations. So that's Part P, and depending on what's above the bathroom Parts B, C, E & L may also be relevant

And adding lights in a bathroom is notifiable.

Awaiting the guns of BAS

Read Schedule 2B.

 

[Chri5]

Ta for the heads up

 

[Kristoff28]

Cheers for the info Chris

What does LNE stand for ???
I dont have any ceiling roses upstairs, as every room has
between 4 and 6 mains GU10 spot lights in which look like they are daisy
chained from the main input line.

Why avoid junction boxes ??? do they fail alot ???

Also, all mains cables that run to every socket upstairs are in the loft
space and run down the stud walls to each socket in every room.

Could i not come off one of those lines ????


Also cheers for the heads up BAS. Printed off a copy and it made good
reading. You seem to be a sparky expert, how would you go about it ???

cheers

Kris

 

[garrymum]

Cheers for the info Chris

What does LNE stand for ???

Live, Neutral, Earth

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Why avoid junction boxes ??? do they fail alot ???

No more than any other screwed connection, it's just that if you can find an alternative it's one less thing that could go wrong. Also they are supposed to remain accessible for checking, which can be problematic.

But if you have no ceiling roses then you've no alternative.

Also, all mains cables that run to every socket upstairs are in the loft
space and run down the stud walls to each socket in every room.

Could i not come off one of those lines ????

You could, but if you decide to use one switch enclosure for both sets of lights you're supposed to have a warning label to alert people to the fact that 2 circuits need isolating to make it safe to work on.

Also cheers for the heads up BAS. Printed off a copy and it made good
reading. You seem to be a sparky expert, how would you go about it ???

A bit like the old joke - I wouldn't start from here. Don't like recessed lights, and I didn't like LEDs when I last tried them, but TBH that was a few years ago and I know they have improved.

Have you tried them? I would advise doing that before you go to all the trouble of perforating your ceiling and wiring them up, only to find that you don't like the light, or it isn't bright enough for you to see the pages of your copy of Razzle¹. If you could use them elsewhere (e.g. on decking) if you don't like them then buy a set, mount them on some thin ply or hardboard, and get someone to help you hold them close to the ceiling and see what you think.

To wire them I would try and avoid putting a socket on the lighting circuit, although as I said, it wouldn't be unsafe if it got used for something else, and you could put it and the power supply in a box which needs a tool to open and put a label on it to say it's for lighting only.

Personally I'd be happier with swapping the supplied power supply for a non-wallwart one and connecting that to an FCU on the lighting circuit.



___________________________________________________________________
¹ Example magazine chosen for humorous effect and is not to be construed as suggesting that you read it.
Any similarity to what you actually read is accidental.
Other magazines are available.
Serving suggestion.
What goes up must come down.
Don't eat yellow snow.

 

[Kristoff28]

Many thanks for all the advice lads. Its been a big help.

1 last question though, to fit an on/off switch to control the leds, do i just interupt the line between the FCU and the socket with a junction box and run a T&E cable from the switch to JB ??

Also the socket and FCU are switched??? does this matter or would i need
un switched ones ???

Thanks

Kris

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Presumably the socket will be out of sight, so there's no point it being switched.

If you use a switched FCU then that will do your on/off, won't it...

 

[Kristoff28]

Yes your correct BAS it does, but the FCU and socket are in the loft and i
will be damned if im dragging my step ladders out and jumping into the
loft to switch my lights on everytime.

I want to turn them on / off on a switch outside the bathroom.

Whats my solution pal ???

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Put the FCU outside the bathroom.....

 

[Kristoff28]

Mmmm far to ugly a switch fo fit on show.

All sorted now anyway, all lights are in and on a seperate on/off switch
outside the bathroom.

The LED's in the ceiling look fantastic although from the outside it looks
like a knocking shop

Will get a pic up soon

cheers for help

Kris