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problem with buying a new boiler is the cost to buy and have it installed.
If your boiler is 20 + years old and is regularly serviced, is not releasing dangerous gas into the house then i cant see the problem with keeping it, as parts are cheap - there are harldy no parts in them!
You might spend the savings on gas to run it, but you will spend £2500+ getting the thing replaced for an A rated one, and it will take over 10 years to reap the savings back. Cant see the point unless its broken beyond repair. Especially if you are not planning to stay in a house for that length of time. Plus, the new boilers tend to break down on an annual basis by the looks of it. PCB's, diverter valves, expansion vessels, etc etc.
If your boiler is 20 + years old and is regularly serviced, is not releasing dangerous gas into the house then i cant see the problem with keeping it, as parts are cheap - there are harldy no parts in them!
You might spend the savings on gas to run it, but you will spend £2500+ getting the thing replaced for an A rated one, and it will take over 10 years to reap the savings back. Cant see the point unless its broken beyond repair. Especially if you are not planning to stay in a house for that length of time. Plus, the new boilers tend to break down on an annual basis by the looks of it. PCB's, diverter valves, expansion vessels, etc etc.
I`m always tweeting after dinner - and when it`s Burns` Night I let out Neeeeeeeeps - after eating my neeps and tatties and haggis
But can we get you for £40.[Only a humble spark
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That's a very good point. Can you guarantee that by ripping out a perfectly good older boiler to save on gas, you will be living there long enough to get the benefit?
My brother bought a house a few years ago, where the previous owner had ripped out a perfectly good vented system to put in a steamer combi. Then he lost his job and had to sell up. My brother got a nearly new boiler that the previous owner got no benefit from. He would still have bought the property if the old system was in place, and it would have made no difference to the property's value.
Before rushing to update to save money, make sure you will be there long enough to see a benefit. Something that's often overlooked.
It wasn't all good news for my brother - this new boiler is a Glow Worm 30CXi.
R
roberta1000
Nothing to do with installation of modern boilers - personal experience of the reliability of the boiler quoted (which would be difficult to improve on).
Figures quoted by the manufacturer in the installation manual are approximately 72%-73% depending on model and gas pressure setting. For a replacement at 93% efficiency and £1000/year spend this would save around £215/annum which could easily be wiped out by additional (more complex) servicing and maintenance costs.
Whilst I don't suppose this figure would be regularly (if at all) achieved in normal service, it's probably no less realistic than today's manufacturer quoted figures. It's to the advantage of the manufacturing industry in general (and in line with governmental pressures) to denigrate the performance of older boilers and overstate the benefits of replacements.
R
roberta1000
Sadly no - I wouldn't be happy with £40, but based on my last boiler service neither is my gasman!But can we get you for £40.[Only a humble spark
Robert - a 35 year old CF is NOT going to be 72% efficient; and i would be surprised if the controls were any help either.
We (and by that I mean the pro's here) will not charge any more for servicing a steamer.
Also, a properly installed an maintained steamer should not be significantly more unreliable than its equivalently controlled Mexico counter part when compared to fuel prices and the inevitable increase.
But I guess your diverse boiler ownership and servicing experience coupled with Googleering have told you otherwise.
We (and by that I mean the pro's here) will not charge any more for servicing a steamer.
Also, a properly installed an maintained steamer should not be significantly more unreliable than its equivalently controlled Mexico counter part when compared to fuel prices and the inevitable increase.
But I guess your diverse boiler ownership and servicing experience coupled with Googleering have told you otherwise.
R
roberta1000
Hi Dan,
Whilst I don't doubt your experience and expertise (and have no need to be ironic or sarcastic), there is overwhelming evidence that modern boilers fail more often and cost more to maintain. You need only scan this site. I readily accept that my boiler won't reach the maker's best-case figures but I doubt if a modern one will either in normal everyday use.
The issue isn't anything to with any of this. It's whether investing in a replacement boiler will overall save money and (from this site and the many people I speak to in my everyday job) it's clear that at best it's a marginal decision.
Whilst I don't doubt your experience and expertise (and have no need to be ironic or sarcastic), there is overwhelming evidence that modern boilers fail more often and cost more to maintain. You need only scan this site. I readily accept that my boiler won't reach the maker's best-case figures but I doubt if a modern one will either in normal everyday use.
The issue isn't anything to with any of this. It's whether investing in a replacement boiler will overall save money and (from this site and the many people I speak to in my everyday job) it's clear that at best it's a marginal decision.
According to several surveys, there is absolutely no evidence that modern boilers break down more readily and often than their more ancient predecessors PROVIDING they are of a reasonable quality in the first place, and they are installed correctly and serviced regularly. Many failures are caused by too infrequent servicing. The tiny weeping leak you have ignored for years has just done for your pcb, or the caked sludge in your system has jammed your diverter valve, taking the servo head with it and somehow it becomes the manufacturers fault?
My old (and now gone) Ideal Mexico FF certainly didn't come with a warranty as long as my new Baxi Neta Tec. The fan and gas valve packed up on the Mexico at the SAME time lol, £400 worth of parts if I wanted to fix it - I fitted a nice steamer instead
My old (and now gone) Ideal Mexico FF certainly didn't come with a warranty as long as my new Baxi Neta Tec. The fan and gas valve packed up on the Mexico at the SAME time lol, £400 worth of parts if I wanted to fix it - I fitted a nice steamer instead
And of course let's not forget the:
Thelias
Response
Puma
Suprima
Lynx (1&2)
Assorted Biasi's
Mini
Styx
Brittony
Elm le Blanc
Sime
Maxol
Halstead Finest - Best - Ace
Granted a lot of those were combis, and what I could come up with off the top of my head in a rapidly cooling bath.... but they all come from the OP's boiler's vintage And were all Band D and all shlt.
Now we have the Atmos/Intergas, ecoTEC, CDi, Glowworm stables all producing boilers that when installed correctly and looked after properly should last for years.
But then owning one boiler is all you need to form a view.
Thelias
Response
Puma
Suprima
Lynx (1&2)
Assorted Biasi's
Mini
Styx
Brittony
Elm le Blanc
Sime
Maxol
Halstead Finest - Best - Ace
Granted a lot of those were combis, and what I could come up with off the top of my head in a rapidly cooling bath.... but they all come from the OP's boiler's vintage And were all Band D and all shlt.
Now we have the Atmos/Intergas, ecoTEC, CDi, Glowworm stables all producing boilers that when installed correctly and looked after properly should last for years.
But then owning one boiler is all you need to form a view
.
G
gaswizzard
Hey Dan the suprima was/IS still a great boiler , 14 years and still goin.
And how many PCB revisions? Not to mention the Gas valve fault that took out the new PCB if you were daft enough to follow the fault finding charts
Not to mention the Gas valve fault that took out the new PCB if you were daft enough to follow the fault finding charts
R
roberta1000
Oh dear!
Anyone with an old boiler knows perfectly well by now whether or not it's been or is still reliable and if not they will have binned it by now. So (to remind those with selective blindness) the issue is whether it is economically advantageous to replace it (that's the reliable old one Dan, not some random choice of crap-heap) with a modern one.
On the evidence, it's marginal at best.
And just remember Dan that these old duffers you now call to mind were at one time recommended and installed by knowledgeable gasmen with vast experience just like you. So perhaps we can take suggestions that today's boilers (which haven't been around 5 minutes) have a long and happy life ahead of them with the proverbial pinch of salt?
Anyone with an old boiler knows perfectly well by now whether or not it's been or is still reliable and if not they will have binned it by now. So (to remind those with selective blindness) the issue is whether it is economically advantageous to replace it (that's the reliable old one Dan, not some random choice of crap-heap) with a modern one.
On the evidence, it's marginal at best.
And just remember Dan that these old duffers you now call to mind were at one time recommended and installed by knowledgeable gasmen with vast experience just like you. So perhaps we can take suggestions that today's boilers (which haven't been around 5 minutes) have a long and happy life ahead of them with the proverbial pinch of salt?
I always prefer old boilers. The young models are too high maintenance.
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