Electrics setup all strange after electrician has been out. Riddle inside (stiff drink needed)...

[oldbutnotdead]

Dim is it? Is there another dim lamp somewhere? Have you still got old-school proper tungsten light bulbs (low voltage or 240v). It is highly possible that your builders' 'electrician' has cocked up in such a way that one lamp is in series with another lamp with a certain combination of switch positions. Again, annoying rather than dangerous as long as the cabling is protected by a correctly rated circuit breaker/fuse and as long as your builder gets the 'electrician' back to sort it in a timely fashion (like 24 hours maximum).

 

[PBC_1966]

Can i ask - is there ANY situation at all, even if unlikely but not impossible, that when i've done a test with one sequence & got 1 result (such as when 1 switch operated upstairs landing but also kitchen x2 & diner) & then i'm 99.9999% sure i've done that exact same test later on ... but got a different result (such as when it did those exact same lights ...

It's not impossible that there is an intermittent short somewhere in the wiring such that sometimes wires are touching and causing the switches to cause lights to operate one way and sometimes they're not causing a different result. But given that your "electrician" has somehow crossed two circuits and must have connected something into a switched line (other than the light it's supposed to control), there are numerous permutations of the various switches which, with the right (or wrong!) wiring could easily change things if one switch is in a different position.

- if you look at the control box, fusebox, control unit (what should i be calling it?) then from left to right is how i call it. So the left most fuse is #1, the next one in with an LT written above it is #2 - the one we're talking about, the one with the blue behind it is #3 & so on with the right most (closest to the total on/off switch) being #6.

Your #2 is actually #5 then. If you look closely you'll normally see molded numbers on the cover for each position, counting away from the main switch. And that type of unit is commonly known as a consumer unit, although there are other names.

 

[PBC_1966]

Came across a CU the other day whose manufacturers were obviously hedging their bets- earth bar was numbered left to right (ascending), neutral bars numbered right to left. Very messy.

I remember seeing one like that a few years ago before I left England. I can't recall the brand, but I remember thinking how daft it was.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Dim is it? Is there another dim lamp somewhere? Have you still got old-school proper tungsten light bulbs (low voltage or 240v). It is highly possible that your builders' 'electrician' has cocked up in such a way that one lamp is in series with another lamp with a certain combination of switch positions. Again, annoying rather than dangerous as long as the cabling is protected by a correctly rated circuit breaker/fuse and as long as your builder gets the 'electrician' back to sort it in a timely fashion (like 24 hours maximum).

I said dim simply because of the layout of the landing light & the box bedroom light that's all. If you're standing at the bottom of the stairs looking up then if the landing light is on then upstairs should look quite bright (since it's a double bulbed light) but if that light is off & only the box bedroom light is on then as you stand at the bottom of the stairs it will look dimmer (than the landing light being on). That's all i meant. Sorry, should've explained.

As for what sort of bulbs we're running - LED bulbs in all lights. Mixture of B22s & E14s i believe the types are. In fact the only bulbs in the house that aren't LED are the bedside table lamps.

Your #2 is actually #5 then.

So you guys were mentioning amps & such earlier. Does the same danger still apply or did you predict that i'd be calling fuse #5 #2 instead & adjust your responses accordingly?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Well that's irksome- I'd assumed you'd roped the mrs in as your glamorous assistant (her at the top of the stairs, you in the cupboard) to make it easier to see what was going on with each permutation of switch and MCB. Not to worry. Not tried wiring 240v LEDs in series- the light output would depend on their internal design (might be a big resistor, might be a switch mode PSU, highly unlikely to be a transformer in there but you never know).

Current wise, i was assuming you were counting breakers from left to right so your lighting circuit #2 was protected by a 6A MCB (which is fine and good). If any of the (fixed) lights go off when you play with the 32A MCBs then that's bad.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Unfortunately no. My knees are goosed so crawling about flicking switches was my assistants job in this case. I'm sure the landing light was coming on when I thought though. Only this time was it dimmer which caused me to go upstairs & actually see.

Anyway before work I set it in such a position where the downstairs landing switch controlled the diner/kitchen/living room also.

Flicked fuse #2 off for the downstairs lights & sure enough they remained on.

This will likely come as no surprise to you - I then flicked fuse #1 off (left most) for the upstairs lights ... And sure enough this then killed the downstairs lights (& the upstairs).


Aside from our electrics are ballsed, does this help you any?

I'm at work now so will have to get back on with this tonight.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Doesn't help me but it does help you- means your lighting circuit is protected at the correct rating. Intriguing how your electrician managed to disturb the lighting circuits while messing about in a ground floor void- wouldn't expect any lighting cables to be in the ground floor floor.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

I wonder if (not that it solved anything) you power the landing light with the downstairs switch.
This results in fuse #2 not killing downstairs. But let's say it's been turned to the off position.

Then go & turn the landing light switch downstairs off & turn the switch for that light upstairs on - whether that'd then kill downstairs.

All that aside I think the electrician will be able to fix it, my only concern then is the burglar alarm & whether it's accepted these changes caused it to no longer work (since it stopped working at that time & is on the light circuit). We just never paid it any mind at the time since we thought it was on the docket circuit.

Though no wires run from the alarm control panel to the subfloor - which is where the electrician was working.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

This RCD thing is baffling me so let me ask this:

We had a dump pump installed. Obviously this has a power cable that is in & about water.

The plug was chopped & the power cable was wired in to a switch on the wall in the living room. I think next to this switch is a fuse. I'm fairly certain there is without checking tonight.

Is that ok? Or should there be something else/as well?

It'll be in with the socket wiring I'm sure of that much. Although when I google RCD switches I see little push button things which I guess are when it trips out.

If it should be wired to anything different then pics would really be beneficial if possible.
Thanks.

 

[stillp]

IF it's likely to have made any difference - the builders had the architrave off & the wires were obviously exposed. I don't know if it's possible if they could've done anything or if it's only going to have been the electrician.

They might have put a nail through the cable when they replaced the architrave, causing an intermittent fault.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Oh marvellous. So we could potentially have a situation where 1 blames the other. I hope not. I don't expect we will as they've been great so far.

The boss has been in touch today with the invoice so I'll explain the situation tonight.

 

[stillp]

Well if he wants paying, he'd better finish the job properly.

 

[PBC_1966]

Flicked fuse #2 off for the downstairs lights & sure enough they remained on.

This will likely come as no surprise to you - I then flicked fuse #1 off (left most) for the upstairs lights ... And sure enough this then killed the downstairs lights (& the upstairs).

So as surmised as the most likely, he's cross-connected the two lighting circuits. It's quite likely been done at a 2-gang switch where both circuits are present (e.g. the 2-gang switch for hallway & landing lights).

Doesn't help me but it does help you- means your lighting circuit is protected at the correct rating.

Except when the light switches are in positions which result in the output side of the two MCB's being paralleled.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

To be honest i'm not sure if the electrician did anything with the light switches.
Granted i wasn't downstairs when they were working (the bulk of it) but when i saw her at the start she was in & about the sockets.

Anyway, regards this sump pump that has been wired to a switch. This is said switch...

I see no visible signs of what i have googled "RCD" anywhere. Unless they're under the floorboards which i doubt.

 

[stillp]

That's a FCU (Fused Connection Unit), or for the pedantic a SFCU. Probably a spur from the socket it is next to. PBC has said you already have all circuits protected by the RCD in your consumer unit.