Why are both wires live and not just one?

[Sprogginz]

Just started to sort my third bedroom out and realised I had previously took out a 2 gang wall power socket and left 2 wires temporarily taped up and disconnected from each other. Both wires are still live but I was expecting just one.

What's left a bit confused and no doubt the limit of my knowledge is that I was assuming it was a ring circuit (it was rewired several years ago by the previous owner) so therefore the power to the following sockets should've have been disconnected too? I didn't want this to happen but I'm just trying to figure why they still work.

It couldn't have been a spur because there are 2 wires?
Is it because I've unintentionally turned a ring circuit into (if possible) 2 radial circuits?

Hope I've made sense! Once finished sorting the room I will put the socket back and all will be well again but I'm just wondering why both wires are still live?

Thanks very much.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

What do you mean by 'wire'? Do you mean wire or do you mean cable with three wires in it. What do you mean by live? Do you mean a neon screwdriver lights up?

And do you really mean that you believe that if you break a ring final circuit both ends will not still remain live?

 

[flameport]

Is it because I've unintentionally turned a ring circuit into (if possible) 2 radial circuits?

Very likely, and if you have, they must be connected together again immediately to restore the ring, not after the room is finished.

Tape is not a suitable method either, a connector of some kind should be fitted and the connectors placed into a suitable enclosure or box.

 

[Sprogginz]

What do you mean by 'wire'? Do you mean wire or do you mean cable with three wires in it. What do you mean by live? Do you mean a neon screwdriver lights up?

And do you really mean that you believe that if you break a ring final circuit both ends will not still remain live?

Sorry, I did mean cables and I used a voltage detector pen.

 

[Sprogginz]

Is it because I've unintentionally turned a ring circuit into (if possible) 2 radial circuits?

Very likely, and if you have, they must be connected together again immediately to restore the ring, not after the room is finished.

Tape is not a suitable method either, a connector of some kind should be fitted and the connectors placed into a suitable enclosure or box.

Okay, thanks very much for that.
Already have my connectors and a choc box!

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Are these both wires red and both showing live, if it was a spur it would have one wire as red and one as black, and in the case of black it should not be live , as well as having earth wires (green/yellow) if you were talking of two red wires, they both will be live as they are part of the ring mains and both end up connected to the distribution board or consumer unit, into the same fuse or MCB.

(Wire colurs may differ on recent installations as brown instead of reds)

 

[stillp]

Are these both wires red and both showing live, if it was a spur it would have one wire as red and one as black, and in the case of black it should not be live

Nonsense! What are you drinking? Each cable will have a red (or brown) wire and a black (or blue) wire, whether a ring, radial or spur. Line and neutral are both lives, and a voltage pen is an untrustworthy indicator of which is which.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It might be OK for stirring tea, though.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What's left a bit confused and no doubt the limit of my knowledge is that I was assuming it was a ring circuit.

What worries me is if you thought it was a ring, why did you think it was OK to create a break in it?

Is it because I've unintentionally turned a ring circuit into (if possible) 2 radial circuits?

Draw a ring circuit - in pencil would be good, as you can then use a rubber to create the break in it.

The revisit your notion of "unintentionally"....

 

[Risteard]

What's left a bit confused and no doubt the limit of my knowledge is that I was assuming it was a ring circuit.

What worries me is if you thought it was a ring, why did you think it was OK to create a break in it?

Because he isn't competent to be doing the work that he did.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Are these both wires red and both showing live, if it was a spur it would have one wire as red and one as black, and in the case of black it should not be live

Nonsense! What are you drinking? Each cable will have a red (or brown) wire and a black (or blue) wire, whether a ring, radial or spur. Line and neutral are both lives, and a voltage pen is an untrustworthy indicator of which is which.

Sorry but before you make a complete ass of yourself, try to understand what i have actually said or stated, and check your own home work, you are completely wrong, how can you detect live 230v on a neutral wire regardless of what gadget you use, provided the gadget indicates live voltages, a neutral conductor should have close to zero potential , so regardless of the gadget, how is that gadget even if cheap unreliable gadget going to indicate live voltage, even the most cheapest gadgets still have to have some voltage to make them indicate live potential, unless there was a break in a neutral and the load was connected to live only then would a neutral indicate 230v .

So let me make clear what I said, if assuming he took his double socket out, that would leave two cables (in and out) each with its own Live, Neutral and earth conductors) and assuming they were separated from one another, and the MCB or fuse was still in place (which shouldn't be if he is working on them apart from testing when he can power up for testing piurpose) and this double socket was on a ring circuit, under this condition both live conductors (red or brown) would indicate live, and both Neutrals would indicate almost zero volts, since the neutrals would be connected to a neutral bar.

So now please stop smoking that pot and see where am I wrong? I will put my money where my mouth is. can you?

 

[Risteard]

So now please stop smoking that pot and see where am I wrong? I will put my money where my mouth is. can you?

The point he is making is that neutral is a live conductor. The line/phase conductor is no more a live conductor than a neutral conductor. This is fundamental in the Definitions.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

MFL - are you aware that both line and neutral conductors are live?

 

[Mikefromlondon]

What's left a bit confused and no doubt the limit of my knowledge is that I was assuming it was a ring circuit.

What worries me is if you thought it was a ring, why did you think it was OK to create a break in it?

I am assuming from his post that he did this to work on his 3rd room, which to me means he has disconnected wires from the double socket, and taped over bare ends to prevent electric shock, and soon as he has finished his room ( that could be wall papering, or skimming or whatever) he would reconnect his double socket) but he asked why is he getting live on both reds, and we are telling him that he would, this is normal and that he should re-establish the ring circuit using a chock block and maintain the ring circuit integrity and then carry on with his work. Also equally important that he connects both earths together in a chock block and as well as both neutrals and he can then tape them over if there is risk of a water splashing when wall papering or skimming.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That's what I thought he meant.

Hence my Q - if he thought the circuit was a ring, why did he think it was OK to create a break in it like that?