Use of the word "transformer"

At first sight I cannot see anything there which looks like a 1:1 isolating transformer. I'm also a bit confused, because the defintion given for just "transformer" appears to be:
IEC said:
transducing element the input and output variables of which are physically of the same kind and which requires no auxiliary power
.... which is very different from the definition which you posted (and which I recently quoted), not to mention being seemingly very vague.

Kind Regards, John
 
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In terms of dictionaries, that's clearly correct. However, as I have said several times, normal ('common') usage does not refer to many things which transform as transformers. An almost endless list of things - from an electric kettle, through my car or table lamp to a plant or my liver - undoubtedly 'transform', but virtually none of them are usually called "transformers".
So, you and Winston cannot say they are NOT.

'First' is irrelevant to what you asked. As I said, the (I assume 'original') definition of 'rectifier' (at least in ordinary dictionaries - I don't know about the IEC!) is purely functional, regardless of the physical form or mechanism of function - so it does not matter what order they came in, since they all satisfy that definition.
That is your whole argument for restricting 'transformer' as a name to the original w-w iron core construction.
 
So, you and Winston cannot say they are NOT.
As you know, they are "transformers" per dictionaries but, as I said, standard/common usage virtually never describes electric kettles, cars, table lamps, plants or livers as "transformers".
That is your whole argument for restricting 'transformer' as a name to the original w-w iron core construction.
You still seem to miss my point about the difference. The word had been established, for over 100 years, as referring to one particular type of hardware, which still exists and is used today. As far as I am aware, "rectifier" has never related to a specific type of hardware, certainly not within my memorable lifetime (50+ years), since metal/selenium rectifiers, thermionic valve rectifiers, silicon and germanium rectifier diodes (even "cats' whiskers"!) etc. all existed at the time I first heard anything about rectifiers.

Kind Regards, John
 
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To me, the word 'transformer' when applied to an electronic component implies (by historical usage if not literal interpretation) some equivalency on each side of the device. e.g. if the input is AC, the output must be AC. If the input quantity increases, the output quantity increases, etc. But if the input is AC and the output is DC then it is not (just) a transformer but a converter. If the input is variable but the output is fixed (regulated) then it is not (just) a transformer but a regulator or stabiliser; a whole PSU.
 
To me, the word 'transformer' when applied to an electronic component implies (by historical usage if not literal interpretation) some equivalency on each side of the device. e.g. if the input is AC, the output must be AC. If the input quantity increases, the output quantity increases, etc. But if the input is AC and the output is DC then it is not (just) a transformer but a converter. If the input is variable but the output is fixed (regulated) then it is not (just) a transformer but a regulator or stabiliser; a whole PSU.
As you will realise, I agree totally, and I think the most important thing you say is probably "by historical usage if not literal interpretation" - which is the concept that EFLI does not seem to regard as having any importance.

As I've tried to explain to EFLI, ignoring 'historical usage' (particularly when the 'historical components' are still in use) is a recipe for confusion, and if one takes a literal interpretation, then a ludicrous number of things (as I've said, "from electric kettles to livers") qualify as "transformers", which is just silly.

Kind Regards, John
 
and I think the most important thing you say is probably "by historical usage if not literal interpretation" - which is the concept that EFLI does not seem to regard as having any importance.
It has importance, but it cannot exclude the definition of the actual word.

As I have written in an other reply to Winston.

The equivalent of what you are saying is that a driver is a device for LEDs and therefore nothing else can be a driver.

As I've tried to explain to EFLI, ignoring 'historical usage' (particularly when the 'historical components' are still in use) is a recipe for confusion,
No it isn't - ask for what you want.

and if one takes a literal interpretation, then a ludicrous number of things (as I've said, "from electric kettles to livers") qualify as "transformers", which is just silly.
So, there must be huge confusion and total bewilderment when you go into shop and ask for a 'driver', then.

However do you distinguish?
 
It has importance, but it cannot exclude the definition of the actual word.
Definitions are derived from usage, not the other way around. (Yes you can coin a word and give it a definition, but if people refuse to adhere to it you eventually have to update the definition! :oops: )

Calling a converter a 'transformer' is just lazy. It invites confusion unless you bolt on some extra words to make yourself clear, which is unecessary if you give something it's own, more unique name.
 
It invites confusion unless you bolt on some extra words to make yourself clear,
Exactly.

which is unecessary if you give something it's own, more unique name.

I haven't coined anything.

Do you just go into the wholesalers and just say "May I have a transformer, please" and the assistant gives you exactly what you want.

I went into curry's and asked for a vacuum. He gave me an empty container.
Oh, there's another confusing word 'container' - I had to hire a lorry to take it home.
 
The equivalent of what you are saying is that a driver is a device for LEDs and therefore nothing else can be a driver.
Not at all. IF the word had been used with that meaning for 100+ years, with no other electrical/electronic device being called the same thing during that period, then I might say what you suggest.
So, there must be huge confusion and total bewilderment when you go into shop and ask for a 'driver', then.
We are agreed that a lot of this is about abbreviation/'laziness', but context has also got a lot to do with it. If I go into a lighting shop, or a computing shop, or a sports equipment shop or an an agency which hires out people who sit behind the controls of lorries, then there should be no confusion or bewilderment if I say that I want to see some of their "drivers", because of the context. However, if I go into a lighting or electric shop and ask for "a transformer", the current use of language means that there is an ambiguity relating to two or more items within the same 'context' (electrical/lighting hardware).

Kind Regards, John
 
No he didn't, he took you to the section that has vacuum cleaners. Because they only sell one type of vacuum, so he knows what you mean.
Exactly - as I have just written, even if they result from laziness/abbreviation, a lot of these uncertainties and ambiguities cease to exist when one has a 'context' - but that is not the case with "a transformer".

Conversely, as I have reported before, when I went into B&Q and (experimentally!) said that I wanted "a lamp for my lamp", I did get some rather odd looks!

Kind Regards, John
 
However, if I go into a lighting or electric shop and ask for "a transformer", the current use of language means that there is an ambiguity relating to two or more items within the same 'context' (electrical/lighting hardware).
Admittedly even in the context of an electronics wholesaler you would still have to specify whether you wanted a power transformer, line matching transformer, current transformer... But it does seem a shame to overload the name even more with something that's not even a wound component.
 
Admittedly even in the context of an electronics wholesaler you would still have to specify whether you wanted a power transformer, line matching transformer, current transformer... But it does seem a shame to overload the name even more with something that's not even a wound component.
Thank you.

So the premise that "A TRANSFORMER" is a specific item and everyone knows what you mean is a flawed one.
 

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