13A Plug with indicator

At least if you find out quickly enough you can throw the food away while it's only slightly soggy instead of waiting until it's liquified into putrefaction.
It may not all need to be thrown away.

Hopefully you label food which you froze with the number of days life it had left, so a defrosted lamb chop that you bought marked down as it was near or at its use by is different from a fresher one which had several days of life left.

Some things can be re-frozen safely, if not necessarily without some flavour impairment.

And stuff can be cooked. Rather than let the sausages rot, and rather than toss them, cook them, and they'll keep for days afterwards. Make a sausage-and-whatever casserole, that will keep, or you can freeze that.
 
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"only a few exceptions"? .... Raising to an adequate temperature will kill any bacteria which have thrived, but will not destroy the toxins they left behind whilst thriving.
Yep, but only a small number of bugs produce heat-stable toxins.

Kind Regards, John
 
If the auto-defrost was to blame, that would worry me a bit, and is one of the reasons why I'm inclined to steer clear of freezers with that 'feature'! Anything which allows food at the top of a freezer to repeatedly 'defrost' is surely bad news?

Kind Regards, John
When the freezer is working as it should the evaporator is behind a partition with the heaters so when the heater switches on it only defrosts the evaporator not the freezer, as soon as the cycle is complete then the freezer motor runs and also a fan moves the cold air around, that fan does not run in defrost, so with the fan running the whole of the freezer is cooled not just the bits near to the evaporator ensuring whole freezer at -18°C not just some sections, with non frost free they do try to spread out the evaporator elements which in turn limits the size of item which can fit, and even when spread out you can get warm spots which the fan of the auto defrost would ensure you don't get. The problem is only when the power is removed during or just after the defrost cycle which can then allow the heat to thermo-syphon into the top of the freezer.
Yep, but only a small number of bugs produce heat-stable toxins.

Kind Regards, John
I did not talk about this at all, why is it linked to me?

I have found the monitor at £72.50 there are others at £80 some units have no case
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clearly designed to fit inside something like an alarm. The more one hunts the more one finds, found one at £36.65 but out of stock, so I am sure there is a way to reduce the price, however it will likely need some wiring skills not simple plug and play.
 
When the freezer is working as it should ....
I have never owned a 'frost-free' freezer, and know very little about them.

Are you saying that such a freezer never develop frost/ice within the ('food') cavity, in the way that traditional ones always do?

If they do develop such frost/ice, one is not going to be able to melt it unless the temperature of the ice is increased to at least 0°C, and I cannot see that such would be possible if there is food at a very sub-zero temperature in contact with it. I therefore cannot really see how one could melt that ice without the temperature of at least parts of some of the adjacent food items rising to an 'unacceptable' temperature. Can you help me understand?

Fridges are obviously different, since the temperature needed to melt any ice does not have to be above a food-acceptable temperature.
I did not talk about this at all, why is it linked to me?
Goodness only knows how that happened. As you can see from what got quoted, I had 'clicked' on a post by BAS!

Kind Regards, John
 
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From a freezer the size of a container to the one in your kitchen the same method is used, when cooling the air is fan blown around the food since the evaporator is the coldest item most of the moisture in the air will freeze on that rather than anywhere else in the freezer, this is also true with any other sort of freezer even without a fan, most of the moisture ends up on the evaporator.

So in real terms you only need to melt the ice on the evaporator as there is very little else where in the unit. So this is removed on a regular basis and the main part of the freezer is not actually de-frosted. Over a few years ice can still build up, but looking at years between manual de-frost not months, of course cram too much in the freezer so door is not closed completely and any freezer can have a huge build up of ice, but as long as fan stops when door is open and freezer restarts when it is closed so any new moisture is removed from the air by the evaporator then frost build up in main part is very slow.

However the main advantage of the frost free is there are no warm spots due to the circulating fan, and also nothing to stop draws being removed either because of frost build up on the evaporator or to allow one to fit the Christmas turkey.

With the better quality upright freezer you have no real option, getting a freezer with an inverter drive motor is near impossible if you don't want frost free. However with chest freezers where the air is not changed each time the door is opened it is near impossible to buy frost free. I have worked in really big freezers but they tend to use a different way to stop the water getting in, you have to walk or drive through the fridge to get to the freezer. However they still use the same method of switching off the fan then local defrost, and only restart fan once cooled down again.

Clearly our breath will have moisture in it, but maximum time of 30 minutes, and not that many people actually worked inside it. I did not notice a build up of frost inside and clearly being so big it would never be closed down for a defrost. It belonged to Iceland in the Deeside industrial park, it got rid of every cold one got, 15 minutes and cold was gone.
 
my freezer's plug is behind the freezer.
I guess a web cam focused on the pop out indicator might help
 
My freezer has a light inside.
Perhaps I should leave the door open so that I’ll know if the fuse blows. ?

Think I’ll file this thread under “pointless” now.
 
So in real terms you only need to melt the ice on the evaporator as there is very little else where in the unit. So this is removed on a regular basis and the main part of the freezer is not actually de-frosted.
Just to add, in a typical frost-free freezer, the evaporator is separate from the food compartment - with at least a baffle between them. Since during freezing the evaporator will always be the coldest part of the freezer, that's where any moisture condenses out - leaving very dry air to be circulated round the food compartment. Since the air is very dry, ice in the main compartment will slowly sublime away.
When the controller determines that the evaporator coil is frosting up, it shuts down the fan and turns on a small electric heater in the evaporator coil to melt the ice off - with the condensate then draining away into a tray on top of the compressor so it will evaporate away into the room rather than making a puddle on the floor. Once defrosted, normal operations can resume and there need be no defrosting of any food.
Most definitely much better than the normal rigmarole of finding somewhere for your frozen stuff while you manually defrost it.
Over a few years ice can still build up, but looking at years between manual de-frost not months ...
Our old freezer suffered from this - every few years it would start struggling to keep the temperature down. The first time it happened a local repair guy told us the (expensive) controller was faulty and it wasn't worth repairing. Someone else diagnosed a frozen up evaporator - and gave the fix as "move your food to another freezer, unplug this one, leave it with the door open for several days". Sure enough, after a day or two, a puddle starting forming and we just kept mopping up until it stopped. After that, a few hours to cool down again and it was fine for several years again.
My assumption was that occasionally it didn't defrost properly, and once part of the coil is iced up, the ice will get frozen really hard and difficult to shift.
 
Just to add, in a typical frost-free freezer, the evaporator is separate from the food compartment - with at least a baffle between them. Since during freezing the evaporator will always be the coldest part of the freezer, that's where any moisture condenses out - leaving very dry air to be circulated round the food compartment. Since the air is very dry, ice in the main compartment will slowly sublime away.
Thanks. I'm learning! Do I take it from what you say that the air is being recirculated in a 'closed circuit'?
Most definitely much better than the normal rigmarole of finding somewhere for your frozen stuff while you manually defrost it.
It certainly sounds like it but, as with most 'new fangled' things, I suppose the price is that there is a fair bit more to 'go wrong'!

Kind Regards, John
 
Yes, the air is just circulated around within the freezer - using the space between door and drawers, and at the back of the drawers, as ducts. So the air is drawn across the food in the drawers, up the back (or front*), through the evaporator coil, down the front (or back*), and back through the drawers.
* Depending on design.
 
I worked with auto defrost 1980 so not really that new, as to the every so often needing a defrost not sure if all freezers are like that or just faulty ones. I have a Hotpoint fridge/freezer plumbed in with cold water from the door, it must be now around 20 years old, maybe older, from the day we got it I think it was faulty, however simply did not realise, it was on a maintenance contract so if it went wrong we called some one out.

It would go wrong about every 2.5 years, first thing we would do is a defrost, if that failed then call the guy out, so first time he renewed a board, next time he removed the cover at back showing us the huge build up of ice, which had stopped the fan running, he blamed this on the drain freezing up and becoming blocked, he put some copper wire in the hole to transfer the heat from defrost heater to whole, and it seemed to work, having seen the build up of ice, next time it went wrong I defrosted for a lot longer, with a fan running inside the freezer compartment to assist rapid defrost, this seemed to work as said not that often it needed doing.

The years went by and then we got a fault with the inertia lamp flashing on/off and the motor switching on/off with very little time between, called the guy out, this time not defrosted first as did not seem connected. He opened the fridge door (not freezer) saw a lump of ice at back, and simply said uneconomical to repair, seems the insulation was faulty, because I had been defrosting it first on previous call outs, they had not seen the tell tail signs. It seems water from within the room builds up in the insulation and allows the heat into the unit through the water, a full defrost and all the water runs out of the insulation and it works again, until the frozen water builds up again.

So insurance paid out and we got a new fridge/freezer with 10 year warrantee, however old one not thrown out, it is now doing sterling surface as a brew fridge, since only cooling to 19°C no build up of water and faulty insulation does not really matter, since frost free and no evaporators in the way, bottom draw of freezer left in with bulbs in it as heaters, and fermenter sits in second draw, all others removed. Beer stays in freezer for around 5 to 8 days, then moved to fridge compartment, temperature is raised to 22°C likely another 7 days then bottled.

Two external thermostatic controllers are used to switch on heater or freezer motor as required, the fridge will only start cooling once freezer hits target so in real terms fridge is never cooled.

So 40 pints at 22°C set to 19°C monitoring the actual fermenter not the air for the thermostatic control, the unit will run for around 45 minutes and the air temperature drops to 8°C but the fermenter stays at 19°C after around 1/2 hour it starts to warm up again and motor runs for second time, and after that around once every 5 hours in summer, until day 2 when most of the fermenting is finished, what was a surprise was it did not over shoot. I realised this is due to the fan stopping when thermostat cuts out, so there is very little air movement once it stops, this stopping and starting of the fan will of course also help when being used as a freezer.

Since I have a small freezer which is not frost free I decided to monitor both frost free and non frost free, actually using the thermostats I use for brewing just to measure temperature, and there was a marked difference, non frost free motor started at -15°C and stopped at -19°C it did vary according to where the sensor was placed, and how much food in it, crammed full with sensor at top -17°C to -19°C near empty with sensor in centre around -15°C to -17°C so then the frost free, the first thing was the range was much reduced -17°C to -18°C and second did not seem to matter where the sensor was placed, got the same results.

Since having the inverter drive freezer and fridge/freezer I have not needed to defrost, now around 4 years old, so seem the Hotpoint may have been faulty from new, also because there is no inrush when starting I can see with an energy meter each time the defrost cycle runs, around once a day, it uses 120W defrost and around 60W running, I have only used the stand alone energy meter so can't say exactly when heaters cut in.

I let the unit cool then over 7 days measured the power used, times by 52 and it is a little lower than what it says it should use for the year. If the insulation fails then the power used will sore, so once a year I can test to see if insulation is OK, however working on a 10 year life swapping a fridge or freezer because it's using too much power is not likely to save one any money, swapping because it can't get down to set temperature yes needs changing, but you should realise if the motor never turns off without need for power meter.

I had a freezer do that, but when measuring the temperature it was -25°C so it was thermostat gone, not insulation or loss of gas. Again at that time I did not have a thermometer which would go low enough, however freezing point of saturated brine is -18°C so since the salt water froze it was easy to see the thermostat was faulty.

Oh and yes the chest freezer is by far the cheapest to run.
 

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