Bldg Reg Changes??

[MarkK]

Hello

My dad has a fairly ancient (well 20 year) floor standing Ideal Concorde Boiler fitted in the fireplace in the kitchen of his 1930's house. The boiler uses the existing flue (but suspect it's lined 'cos there's a terminal on top of the stack) to get the nasty stuff out but relies on natural ventilation to provide air.

BG have just serviced the boiler and told him that changes in CORGI rules require that he makes different ventilation provisions. They've issued a warning notice that the installation doesn't comply with current regs although not threatened to cut off the gas supply.

They want to drill 2 (yes 2!!) 5 inch holes in the kitchen walls to provide appropriate ventilation which (it's implied) will remain open to the outside 24/7 all year round. Place will be like the Arctic!!

Now the BG salesmen have been round. Perhaps it would be better to have a new boiler but it has to meet the new regs. Can't install it in current location etc etc. I can see the bill rocketing skywards and he's 81.

Any professionals out there that can confirm please that these "new regs" actually exist and that they are or are not retrospective? I get the feeling they are taking the p..s!

Cheers

 

[keego]

No they're not taking the mick, the ventilation reg's changed this year & ventilation requirements that have been not to current standards (NCS) for years are now AT RISK & if my memory serves me right through the hangover it will go to immediately dangerous in 2007?.
As for the ventilation for your boiler more information is needed, ie, how many Kw's, is it in a cupboard, where the new vents are going .

 

[MarkK]

No they're not taking the mick, the ventilation reg's changed this year & ventilation requirements that have been not to current standards (NCS) for years are now AT RISK & if my memory serves me right through the hangover it will go to immediately dangerous in 2007?.
As for the ventilation for your boiler more information is needed, ie, how many Kw's, is it in a cupboard, where the new vents are going .

Hey thanks keego. Yes - "At Risk" is the expression they have used. Sorry - dunno about KWs - I think it's an "SX" variety if that helps but I'd have to check. No it isn't in a cupboard. It's freestanding in the old fireplace. I can only guess at where the new vents are to go but the nearest outside wall is about 1.5 - 2 metres away from the boiler.

Cheers

 

[cozzmic]

2008 the changes take place it's in the unsafe situations edition 4 from the dogs publication only I've googled to see if its on the net but to no avail. Its £13 if you want to buy it but get it checked by an independent reg installer and he/she will keep you right. It depends on the input of your boiler to work out the vent requirements and it may need the equivalent of the two 5" holes.

Merry Xmas

 

[Paul Barker]

It is unlikely to be more than 24kw, the information is inside the boiler on the Data Badge. This will give a gross heat input either in both btu and KW or just btu.

Devide btu by 3412 to get kw.

devide reslut by 1.1 to get net figure.

deduct 7 from result.

multiply new result by 5, that is how many centimeters squared ventilation you need from the same room to outside. It can bbe placed anywhere, through ceiling, in wall high or low, through floor.

IF 24kw result is 85cm sq. A ready made round hole gas vent costing about £30 which is about five inch gives 75cm with a baffle in it or 100cm with it removed. Has correclty labelled grills on inside and outside and rainwater ingress protection. An independent should assess your needs and fit required number of these for less than £150.

For this sort of scenario BG would charge about 3 g's for the new boiler, and independent would charge 2g's.

BG have been reported in the press for oportunistically selling people new boilers just because of the requirment for what has always been the correct amount of ventilation. If they first installed thge original boiler there is a case to make them do the job properly retrospectively. The regs haven't changed just the category of incopmpetent installation.

I saved one customer from the new bg boiler team. It turned out when I later got to know him he is dissabled (visually) living mostly on his savings.

 

[chrishutt]

The regs haven't changed just the category of incompetent installation.

I'd Just like to confirm what Paul is saying. The regulations remain the same, but formerly Corgi issued misleading advice on how to class ventilation that wasn't to standard. As a result of Corgi's incompetence, many installations that should have been classed as At Risk (AR) were instead classed as sub standard or Not to Current Standards (NCS).

The difference is critical because NCS classification does not require any action to be taken, whereas AR requires action - namely isolating the appliance with customer's permission. Assuming that BG have previously been informing you incorrectly that the installation was NCS you could argue that they should now bear the cost of bringing it up to standard. Their past errors may have been due in part to Corgi's incompetence, but that is not your concern.

 

[MarkK]

Thanks guys - very helpful. So I'm getting that if BG have been servicing this system for years and NOT flagging the ventilation as being substandard then they are possibly at fault?

It's possible (actually knowing the old man it's most likely) that it was BG who installed in the first place. How long have the current ventilation requirements been in place? What I'm realy asking is were they in forec in the mid 80's or if not when did they change?

Thanks

Cheers

 

[Nige F]

Many Thanks Paul B. I`ve got a deaf cust. myself who`s at risk from BG (and the dids).........I`m not corgi, but I`ll fit a vent for him so he can keep his old boiler. Fitted a high level w.c cistern for him once, took it out of one house, into his

 

[chrishutt]

How long have the current ventilation requirements been in place?

The important thing in relation to the original installation is the Manufacturer's Instructions (MI), which override most other regulations. Ideal should be able to supply you with a copy of the MI for that model - it would help if you can quote serial number or gas council number.

 

[MarkK]

Thanks Chris. If I had a brain I'd have thought of that but then again I'd be dangerous!

Cheers