Can I create a switch socket out of a light switch?

[gpmanning7]

Hi all

I've seen diagrams of taking a spur off the switched socket, adding a light switch and then onto a wall light but can I do it the other way around?

I have no other switched socket in my hall close without any obstacles to create an extension or take a spur off but directly above where I want the socket is a light switch for the under stairs light.

Questions:

1. Can I take a spur off the light down the inside of the wall and add a 1 gang switched socket?

2. What's the difference between single and double pole with these switches, what should I use?

3. If the above is OK and I go ahead, is it safe to change the light switch to a "switch to break" door switch inside the door frame so I can switch the light on when the door opens? Option 3 is the least important.

Here's a pic of the back of the switch if that helps.

https://picasaweb.google.com/107828...key=Gv1sRgCPbKqt79n8mg6wE#5658435078224669570

Thanks for any advice.

BTW I'm happy doing the wiring myself, adding the socket etc and have already added a floodlight to the outside of my house to an existing outside switch but could do with some pointers.

Thanks
Gary

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1. Can I take a spur off the light down the inside of the wall and add a 1 gang switched socket?

Putting sockets on lighting circuits is a bad design, as the whole circuit is limited to 6A, so it becomes very easy to overload it. It's a reasonably OK thing to do in loft for a TV signal amp, for example, but in a hallway you're asking for trouble.

Also, do you know that the black wires are definitely neutrals, i.e. that the lighting loop runs through the switches, and it's not the case that the switch was installed by a numpty who didn't know you could use black for switched live?

2. What's the difference between single and double pole with these switches, what should I use?

Light switches are single pole.

Sockets can be either, i.e. the switch either operates on just the live, or on both live and neutral.

IMO the use of single pole sockets is cheapskate.

3. If the above is OK and I go ahead, is it safe to change the light switch to a "switch to break" door switch inside the door frame so I can switch the light on when the door opens? Option 3 is the least important.

Yes.

 

[JohnW2]

3. If the above is OK and I go ahead, is it safe to change the light switch to a "switch to break" door switch inside the door frame so I can switch the light on when the door opens?

As BAS has said, this is theoretically possible. However, have you considered the fact that unless you retain the switch as well, you wouldn't be able to have the light on without having the door open? What about those cold and dark winter nights?

If there are two switches controlling the hall light (i.e. "2-way switching"), that might partially solve that problem - but it would probably introduce new problems (in addition to those already mentioned) if you tried to wire a socket from the light switch.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[aptsys]

IMO the use of single pole sockets is cheapskate.

I've always debated this when buying sockets. If the switch fails on DP switched sockets so that the phase is never turned off, you wouldn't necessarily know unless the appliance became faulty or someone was being electrocuted. SP switches sockets would identify failure immediately.

 

[JohnW2]

IMO the use of single pole sockets is cheapskate.

I've always debated this when buying sockets. If the switch fails on DP switched sockets so that the phase is never turned off, you wouldn't necessarily know unless the appliance became faulty or someone was being electrocuted. SP switches sockets would identify failure immediately.

Indeed, I've been through the same thought processes. I also wonder if there is much point/need in DP switches; complete isolation is obviously possible by pulling out the plug, DP switches offer an additional thing (set of switch contacts) to fail, and would only provide a safety advantage in extremely unlikely circumstances. Furthermore, I don't know if BAS feels the same about SP light switches, even though one generally does not have the option of 'pulling the plug out' to get complete isolation in a lighting circuit. ... and, of course, although 'cheapskate' is essentially derogatory, to not unnecessarily pay more for functionality one does not need is fairly laudable (might even save a few trees!)!

Kind Regards, John

 

[gpmanning7]

Just to add a bit more, I'd either want to keep the switch as is or leave it alone and use a door switch instead. Good point though. Will I have to have the light it currently controls under the stairs permanently on if I also want the socket to work?

The socket would only ever have a energy saving low voltage bulb / lamp attached. I'll use the existing sockets for the Hoover etc. so hope thy keeps the overall load down.

 

[JohnW2]

Just to add a bit more, I'd either want to keep the switch as is or leave it alone and use a door switch instead. Good point though. Will I have to have the light it currently controls under the stairs permanently on if I also want the socket to work?

No, not necessarily. However, as has already been intimated, it's far from certain (I would have thought fairly unlikely) that you'd have the right wires at a light switch to run a socket, anyway.

The socket would only ever have a energy saving low voltage bulb / lamp attached. I'll use the existing sockets for the Hoover etc. so hope thy keeps the overall load down.

Exactly what is this socket for? If it's only for lighting, as you seem to be implying, why cannot that be wired into the lighting circuit 'properly'. If there is some good reason for having a socket, you could use, say, a 5A round-pin one, to make sure that no-one could plug in a hoover!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Paul_C]

Indeed, I've been through the same thought processes. I also wonder if there is much point/need in DP switches; complete isolation is obviously possible by pulling out the plug

My thoughts also. A single-pole switch on the socket is perfectly adequate for functional switching, just as a single-pole switch controlling a fixed lighting point is adequate. Double-pole switched sockets are a comparatively recent idea, and don't really provide any tangible benefits since, as John says, if you really want to make sure the appliance is completely isolated you can just pull out the plug - Which I would do to ensure complete isolation with a D.P.-switched socket anyway.

In fact I would go further and ask just how necessary switched sockets are at all in many locations. They've just become the convention in Britain, but most other places in the world outside of those influenced by British practices don't use socket outlets with integral switches.