Can someone tell me we have applied for a certificate of lawfulness on a piece of land that 2 land girls lived on from about 1955 until 18 months ago. the planing department are asking for death certificates and when they last lived in the properties. Can anyone tell me if there is a time span from death to application of the certificate.
Certificate of Lawfulness
- Thread starter SarahBirdy
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More info on earlier post the 2 ladies lived in the property from 1955 until 18th months ago and there is proof of that by Rates payment elector roll etc.
What i am worried about is that no one has lived there for 18 months can any one help
What i am worried about is that no one has lived there for 18 months can any one help
I have not seen the earlier post (you should get a mod to link them), but it still seems that you can't prove continuous use if 18 months have passed, and the land was not being used for the same purpose in the meantime
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Hi woody
The ladies died 18th months ago and the land has only just gone on the market and the beneficeries did not get the certificate
is there still an electricity bill showing minimal consumption as that is evidence that the building (or whatever) has not become disused or derelict if the services are still connected.
I will check thanks
Hi Sarah,
It's important to note that the concept of "significant interruption" in relation to the 4-year rule is very different from the concept of "abandonment".
For example, suppose you have an agricultural barn that you start using as a house. If you live in it for a continuous period of 4 years, without significant interruption, then it will become lawful as a house (this is assuming that you're not caught by the relatively new provisions relating to concealment). For this purpose, a significant interruption could be as little as a few months. For example, if you used the barn as a house for 2 years, then left it empty for 18 months, then started using it as a house again, then the 4-year rule would almost certainly be interrupted and would start again from the latter period.
However, once a property becomes lawful for a particular use, then it becomes much harder for this use to be abandoned. There are a number of factors that are used to assess "abandonment", including the period for which the property has been empty, but generally the property would have to be empty for many years before the use would be abandoned. With the above example, if you used the barn as a house for a continuous period 4 years, so that it became lawful as a house, and then left it empty for 18 months, then its use as a house would almost certainly NOT be abandoned.
In my opinion, from the situation that you've described it sounds like there would be a decent chance of an LDC being issued, although these types of issues can be very complicated so you may want to seek further advice from someone else (e.g. a legal professional, etc). I'm guessing that the reason the Council are asking for the death certificates is because if it turns out that the ladies died (say) 20 years ago, then there could be an issue of abandonment. However, if the period is only 18 months, and assuming that the property is still in a liveable condition and hasn't been used as something else during this period, then I would be surprised if this is considered to be abandonment.
Thanks,
Steve
It's important to note that the concept of "significant interruption" in relation to the 4-year rule is very different from the concept of "abandonment".
For example, suppose you have an agricultural barn that you start using as a house. If you live in it for a continuous period of 4 years, without significant interruption, then it will become lawful as a house (this is assuming that you're not caught by the relatively new provisions relating to concealment). For this purpose, a significant interruption could be as little as a few months. For example, if you used the barn as a house for 2 years, then left it empty for 18 months, then started using it as a house again, then the 4-year rule would almost certainly be interrupted and would start again from the latter period.
However, once a property becomes lawful for a particular use, then it becomes much harder for this use to be abandoned. There are a number of factors that are used to assess "abandonment", including the period for which the property has been empty, but generally the property would have to be empty for many years before the use would be abandoned. With the above example, if you used the barn as a house for a continuous period 4 years, so that it became lawful as a house, and then left it empty for 18 months, then its use as a house would almost certainly NOT be abandoned.
In my opinion, from the situation that you've described it sounds like there would be a decent chance of an LDC being issued, although these types of issues can be very complicated so you may want to seek further advice from someone else (e.g. a legal professional, etc). I'm guessing that the reason the Council are asking for the death certificates is because if it turns out that the ladies died (say) 20 years ago, then there could be an issue of abandonment. However, if the period is only 18 months, and assuming that the property is still in a liveable condition and hasn't been used as something else during this period, then I would be surprised if this is considered to be abandonment.
Thanks,
Steve
It can take well in excess of 18months for solicitors to sort out a will and get the property on the market. My elderly neighbour died 3 years ago and her bungalow has only just been sold, it was empty but certainly not abandoned.
This from a legal dictionary:
"Term includes both the intention to abandon and the external act by which the intention is carried into effect. In determining whether someone has abandoned property or rights, the intention is the first and paramount object of inquiry, for there can be no abandonment without the intention to abandon"
I believe it has been been held by a court that even a period of 40 years of non-use was not sufficient in itself to indicate abandonment.
I think I remember that from a book by that chap who specialises in advising on the reclamation of old cottages.
"Term includes both the intention to abandon and the external act by which the intention is carried into effect. In determining whether someone has abandoned property or rights, the intention is the first and paramount object of inquiry, for there can be no abandonment without the intention to abandon"
I believe it has been been held by a court that even a period of 40 years of non-use was not sufficient in itself to indicate abandonment.
I think I remember that from a book by that chap who specialises in advising on the reclamation of old cottages.
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