Damp Surveyor Con?

[Kezzabeth]

We live in a mid-terrace victorian house which we are selling and have accepted an offer on. Our buyers had a regular homebuyer survey which showed up slight dampness. The surveyor actually told us it was nothing to worry about, as higher readings are normal in older houses but that he would recommend a specialised damp survey, basically to cover his own back.

Our buyers organised a survey, and a guy came from an actual damp proofing company, put his little meter on the wall and claimed our whole house had rising damp. He was very assure that no lender would lend on a damp house. We've lived here for 3 years and aside from one patch by the front door there is no signs whatsoever of damp. He even claimed our newly renovated kitchen would need to be ripped out and every single wall injected it was 'that' bad. He even said to us "I don't know how you live here - it's so damp!" I was so baffled and confused, if it was that bad how did we not know? Why are there no signs? After he went alarm bells just started ringing.. how can someone claim there's a problem when there is no problem? And he was so assure that his report would stop any buyer being able to buy this house without an injection course needed first, almost as if it was in his power to get us to buy the bloody treatment off of him otherwise we can't sell! I also realised he never even checked the exterior of the house, what about the pointing? Or maybe an overflowing drain? He was so quick to label it 'rising damp' throughout the whole downstairs. Our first time buyers are bound to run a mile, and like he said, if they don't, will the lender request a course? I feel scammed, conned and confused. I thought about getting our own surveyor in.. But if we don't believe our buyers surveyor, why would they believe ours?

He actually went as far to use the word "saturated" in damp. I've had a second opinion from a builder (not damp specialist, I know) but he didn't pin-point cause, only confirmed it wasn't that damp and he recommended no need for injections. He highlighted areas that were worse - around the chimney breast, and a couple of areas on the wall which has an alley running through on the other side, but that 'saturated' was an over-statement and the wall moisture nothing to worry about.

Is there anything I should do to try and solve this WITHOUT injections, or should I just get an independent surveyor straight in and challenge the original guys opinion?

 

[EFLImpudence]

You seem to have sussed the situation perfectly.

What about buying/hiring a meter and doing your own tests?

 

[Kezzabeth]

I have actually done this today actually. There are areas with higher readings than the rest for sure, and there is definitely a consistent moisture level around the lower level of the house. But surely this is normal? Evaporation, and the whole 'allowing the walls to breathe' type thing. I still can't pin-point what would cause the higher measurements, but as I said, there is NO visible damp in these areas. Interestingly, I've just crawled along the outside of my house, and there is a definite chemical damp course in existence, although I'm not sure how old.

 

[jockscott]

Most (if not all) of these damp proofing companies, operate scams. They'll tell you he worst news possible and give you high quotes for work that doesn't need doing. The most common way of scamming customers is the hold their thumb over the points of the sensor they use (yep it's the damp on their own skin their registering). Tell the people buying your house, they can pull out now as your not going to drop one penny off the price. They'll either walk or buy.

 

[JohnD]

does anybody drape wet washing inside your house?

 

[Kezzabeth]

No, we have no proper heating anyway so it'd be stupid as it simply wouldn't dry

 

[jeds]

Challenge it! But for that you need credible evidence. Credible means qualified, professional and independent. Independent evidence from a professional will trump a damp proof company every time.

 

[JBR]

I suggest you visit the Building sub forum on here. This matter has been discussed thoroughly and many experts claim that there is no such thing as 'rising damp'.

The general consensus is that you ensure there is lots of ventilation. I know it's difficult in cold weather, but I'd leave windows open as much as you can. I suspect that after a time you might find that the damp readings are a good deal lower.

 

[anobium]

It is impossible to identify rising damp with the use of a moister meter.
As has been said the readings could be due to a variety of reasons.
I would suggest that you tell the purchasers that unless the test are carried in accordance with the BRE Digest 245 at their expense you will not accept the findings.

 

[Flyboytim]

The acid test is to drill the wall where the damp is worst with a masonry bit, If dust comes out the wall is dry. If however the bit is filled with steaming sludge, then it is saturated.

 

[anobium]

The acid test is to drill the wall where the damp is worst with a masonry bit, If dust comes out the wall is dry. If however the bit is filled with steaming sludge, then it is saturated.

With all due respect that is a load of bo*****s, if anything its just as bad as that so called surveyor that came to the op house.

A wall can be saturated for a variety of reasons but the solution can only be prescribed when the cause has been identified.

Yes there are a load of con merchants out there are also some genuine ones, but you will have to pay them for a proper survey.

 

[KenGMac]

Agree that the vast majority of Injecting DPC "professionals" are how can I put it, they are at it.

I have seen properties that have been DPC injected on at least two occasions, within the last two to five years.

I have seen a number of properties that have two rows of drilled holes on the external walls, and on some occasions one of the rows the holes had been filled whilst another row had the drill holes left open.

One of my friends was told that a 200 Year old cottage constructed from locally sourced river sourced stone needed to be injected, in effect a random rouble wall. no chance of uniformity in the injection system and pointless.

My property, 1822 [Georgian] has in places two rows of injection holes, it is still damp according to my Protimeter the ground floor walls are average 700.mm thick masonry, I wonder why an injected DPC does not work? unfortunately what the Valuation Surveyor spouts, the mortgage lender swallows.

When I worked in Carlisle [on the floods there some years ago now] the "local brick" and especially the mortar that contained a LOT of "metal" that gave false damp readings on a Meter simply did not "take" any sort of DPM that was Injected, the composition of the bricks would not absorb the fluid neither would the high metallic bearing mortar?

Ken

 

[jeds]

As has been said above, and many times before, an electrical damp meter does not tell you if rising damp is present in a wall. The only reliable method is a carbide test and a salts analysis.

Standard test for dampness is a carbide test. You take a measured sample of material from within the wall, put it into a special pressure vessel with a measured amount of carbide powder and seal the lid. The carbide reacts with any moisture present and produces pressure. The pressure can be read on a meter on the end of the vessel. The pressure indicates the moisture content for the measured amount. The result is very accurate.

Standard test to determine where the moisture came from is a salts test. This a simple chemical test for certain soil borne chlorides and nitrates. If the test is positive you know the moisture came from the ground. i.e. it is rising damp. If not you know it came from elsewhere. i.e. condensation or penetrating rainwater.

 

[Flyboytim]

The acid test is to drill the wall where the damp is worst with a masonry bit, If dust comes out the wall is dry. If however the bit is filled with steaming sludge, then it is saturated.

With all due respect that is a load of bo*****s, if anything its just as bad as that so called surveyor that came to the op house.

A wall can be saturated for a variety of reasons but the solution can only be prescribed when the cause has been identified.

Yes there are a load of con merchants out there are also some genuine ones, but you will have to pay them for a proper survey.

The drill test tells you only if the brickwork is saturated - if not, then the damp is not coming through the brick.

If the wall is saturated then look for the cause, but if the underlying wall is dry, then the damp is not in the wall - it is in the surface coat - for whatever reasons -

wicking from the floor if the plaster meets floor, especially with hygroscopic salts from years of daily wet mopping with lye, soap or soda, or "cured rising damp" but no subsequent plaster replacement,

cold bridging from impermeable cement mortar beneath gypsum plaster skim, or from defective exterior renders or plinths bridging DPC allowing water into brick courses above a patent DPC, from subfloor void air causing draughts behind skirtings etc.,

simple condensation from lack of local air movement or poor moisture management - lack of sufficient air changes, ventilation or extraction - excess indoor moisture sources, intermittent heating regimes leading to warm air meeting cold walls

To name just a few...

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