Franke Siphon Kit 2 - can condensate be run straight into one of the spigots?

[c128]

Hi,

I've just had a new Viessmann 100-W installed, and the installer used the pre-existing condensate connection from the old boiler (that joins onto a separate washing machine outlet). Now, with the old boiler, the connection of the condensate pipe used to leak a bit - but hadn't done so for years. Last night noticed that, with the new boiler, and after the heating has been running for a while, it's leaking - so I'm suspecting the new boiler condenses more and is just showing this up. So - I'll get the company that installed it to have a look at it.

However, is it possible to root the condensate straight onto one of the spare spigots of the sink waste?

I have one of these:

http://www.franke.com/content/kitch...ts/siphon_ii/112_0052_536_detail.ksflash.html

...both spigots are free.

Don't know whether this is possible, whether it's a good/bad idea versus fixing the leak with what's there and whether to suggest this and pay whatever extra to get it done.

It has a "plus" as, where the condensate pipe currently has to be routed, it's awkward and goes through the back of the cupboard - with the sink waste it could drop in quite easily through an existing hole in the worktop and through the back of the sink unit.

Thanks.

 

[bernardgreen]

It would be preferable to make the condensate connection after the U bend. The condensate is acidic and would react with any alkali in the U bend ( cleaning materials etc ) which could create fumes that would then come out of the sink drain / plug hole

 

[c128]

It would be preferable to make the condensate connection after the U bend. The condensate is acidic and would react with any alkali in the U bend ( cleaning materials etc ) which could create fumes that would then come out of the sink drain / plug hole

Ah, OK, thanks. Wouldn't be room for anything else past the U bend.

Guess I'll have to ask them to fix-up what's there. Don't know whether that means extra cash or not, but it was mentioned at the quote that they'd re-use the existing condensate, and I'd forgotten that it had leaked in the past (until last night's reminder ).

 

[c128]

Actually, looking at this again...there are McAlpine products that have a condensate entry before the U bend e.g. :

http://www.mcalpineplumbing.com/tra...l-nozzle-and-connection-for-19-23mm-pipe.html

...but these aren't a great idea, for the reasons above?

 

[gasmanstu72]

the condensate must be installed down stream of the trap, it has nothing to do with fumes being created from contact with cleaning products, its mainly because there is no chance of any products of combustion coming back through the plug hole as the condensate pipe is connected to the flue indirectly, the water in the trap will stop this happening,

what you need is a 1GR http://www.mcalpineplumbing.com/tra...ate-fittings/1-188-1-189-pipe-clamp-grey.html

 

[c128]

the condensate must be installed down stream of the trap, it has nothing to do with fumes being created from contact with cleaning products, its mainly because there is no chance of any products of combustion coming back through the plug hole as the condensate pipe is connected to the flue indirectly, the water in the trap will stop this happening,

what you need is a 1GR http://www.mcalpineplumbing.com/tra...ate-fittings/1-188-1-189-pipe-clamp-grey.html

Literally no room after the trap with the kit above, but one of those would be a fix for where the condensate goes at the moment combined with the washing machine outlet, where the current leak is, so I'll keep that in mind if the installation company says (as I reasonably expect them to) "that's existing pipework". Thanks.

Just curious really that there are ready-made products out there, designed for condensate, that put it before the trap.

 

[Jackrae]

There should be a water trap within the boiler as part of the condensate system that prevents 'direct' connection between flue and condensate outlet

However the boiler installation instructions will dictate what is permitted with respect to condensate drain

 

[c128]

However the boiler installation instructions will dictate what is permitted with respect to condensate drain

I'll ask the company more specifically about it, not just the minor leak.
Looking at the boiler installation manual, based on the above, I'm not totally sure the way the condensate is currently fitted fits with the instructions:

With my install: (A), the supplied flexible condensate hose, is pushed onto the condensate pipe that was already there from the old boiler (solvent welded stuff), albeit now cut down a bit above the work surface i.e. the solvent welded pipe used to connect directly to the old boiler, but (A) now connects to it, above the work surface.

The pre-existing condensate pipe then runs down through the work surface, along the back of a unit, and joins the washing machine output in an adjacent unit and on to the outside - there's no trap, the washing machine outlet is pushed onto a spigot at the end of the pipe, and the solvent-welded pipe connects to the same outlet, from above, a little further along. It's the join to the washing machine output pipe in this unit where there's a drip leak - it doesn't leak from using the washing machine.

AIUI, even though it's a minor leak with how it's currently connected, I'm not meant to touch this as it forms part of the flu? Also, the pipe outside isn't lagged - is that required if the condensate is combined with the washing machine outlet?

 

[c128]

A while ago, shortly after posting this, I had the company back to look at this - they put some silicone around the connection of the condensate pipework to the washing machine outlet - dunno how long this will last but it's been OK since, so possibly fine - seems...messy though, and I don't really trust it not to leak again as it's in a kitchen cupboard. They've classified it as pre-existing pipework from the old boiler, so wouldn't be addressed more fundamentally as part of the new installation work. However, if it starts leaking again, and I have to get something else done as new work, I'd be less concerned about it if it were connected to the sink waste spigot...

Keeping in mind Jackrae's comment above, the instructions posted are all I can see in the online manual regarding Viessmann's recommendations for condensate drain connections.
The Viessmann does seem to have an internal trap though - listed elsewhere in the manual.

Given the above: if it leaks again, and I have to get them back to look at it, is the sink waste spigot an acceptable option for the condensate?

 

[Jackrae]

From the above diagram, it would appear acceptable. A tundish is an open vented collection point and the diagram states that a tundish is acceptable or a direct connection to a sink waste.