Kitchen fitting - Part P and 17th

[Bonce]

Moderators,

Sorry managed to post this in plumbing and central heating unwittingly but could not determine how to move it,can you help out please, thanks.
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My sister and husband are looking at having their kitchen redone through one of the big DIY stores (fitting as well).

They have an old style CU - wired fuses etc. I think 3 total, one for downstairs sockets, 1 lights and 1 upstairs sockets, I think.

Their kitchen has a gas only cooker and hob, so no electric connection.

They have been told by the DIY firm that they wont touch it until they have put an RCD on the circuit for the kitchen. Is this normal does anyone know? and wont this then mean that a new CU needs to be fitted?

They don't think they will need to change the electrics much i.e. they have enough sockets etc, but would want an extractor fitting. The washing machine/dryer is plugged into a socket under the units and has no FCU connection above the unit.

If they changed nothing (ignoring the extractor for a minute) would it be allowable to leave the electrics as they are when they fit the new kitchen? or is their necessity legally to bring the electrics up to current regs? for example what would happen with sockets not accessible for washing machine?

If they change nothing except the extractor, don't know how one is fitted, is a spur allowed for example (but whatever is the correct method)? By 'breaking in' to the existing kitchen electrics must the circuit they have broken into (kitchen ring) mean that that whole circuit must be to current standards (or just the part they put in i.e. the new bits for the extractor, if its the former then presume they must then put under RCD which means probably changing the CU?

They just want to know that they are not being fed the wrong information by the store and therefore having more work done than is strictly necessary.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Steve]

Yes as far as I know, adding a point on a circuit means that circuit must be up to standards - so it would have to be RCD protected. Doesn't need a new CU, the RCD could be put in line on the kitchen circuit cables.

The rewireable fuse box tells me that the system should be inspected anyway, before any work is done.

And the "DIY firm" must notify the local council's building control if they are altering the circuit in the kitchen. Any work in the kitchen must be notified, whether it is RCD protected or not, unless the person doing the work is registered.

If they get an electrician to fit an RCD or a new board (recommended), the same guy might as well do any alterations on the kitchen. Because he WILL be registered.

 

[Pensdown]

They just want to know that they are not being fed the wrong information by the store and therefore having more work done than is strictly necessary.

Thanks in advance.

As Steve has pointed out you will need an RCD for the Kitchen and it may be worth up-dating you consumer unit at the same time.

My only reservation would be letting the Kitchen fitters do the work. Even if they sub-contract the work to a "proper" sparks, you will still have to pay their markup and DIY sheds are really good at marking things up!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And sub-contracting to rubbish sub-contractors who then in turn sub-contract the electrical work to absolutely incompetent and dangerous fools who do a terrible job and leave the customer with an illegal installation and a convoluted contractual mess to resolve.

I would strongly advise your sister to have nothing to do with the DIY store fitters, but if that's too late to definitely have nothing to do with any suggestion that they do, or arrange, the electrical work.

 

[Bonce]

Thanks all.

Good news sister isn't comitted with the DIY fitters yet, but we did want to know whether they could just cut in to an existing circuit without updating that circuit to the 17th/part P but from what has been said the answer seems to be no to this.

If they did nothing at all to the electrics i.e. didn't touch it in anyway and didn't bother with extractor, is this allowed? I know it may not be the best idea, but from a legal point of view are they able to refit kitchen with sockets hidden behind washimng machines with no FCU or is the refit considered as a major alteration (something like that) and then does this legally mean they must update the electrics?

It is no different to it is now I suppose but I dont know if they are legally bound in some way to do this?

Thanks all again very much appreciated.

 

[sparkyspike]

If you try and build a new kitchen around an old electrical installation which doesn't have things like power for a cooker, fan, hood etc., or has outlets in the wrong place, then you will ultimately end up with a BODGE.

You should be able to get a fair price from a local electrician, if you can use some of the existing wiring and outlets. Call one up and get some advice on what to fit and what the cost would be. Then subtract the kitchen fitter's fee for electrical work from their quote. It may not be as bad as you think. If you're spending 2 or 3 grand on a kitchen PLUS fitting, then the electrical work won't seem that much - and it will be WELL worth it.

 

[Bonce]

Thanks all.

I was just surprised by fitting costs they were quotoing for things like electrics etc. Basically kitchen iteslf maybe 3K but total price 6.5k - seems a lot and they were quoting the electrics as big portion of that.

thanks again much appreciated.

 

[sparkyspike]

The last kitchen rewire I did as a local job took 3 days and cost £1200 including a new up-to-date consumer unit, and all materials. I bet they charge more than that at the DIY store!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Is it... could it be him?

I do believe it is.....

 

[Bonce]

Ban all Sheds, I couldn't possibly say but there is an 'and' in the name and a Q and B.

Thanks all again, from me (and my sister)!

 

[Albert]

I think that you are missing the point, the regulations are there to make sure that you will be safe, to protect you. Following the regulations will do that. A competent electrician might, but not always, charge a bit more but you will get value for your money and can sleep at night. do not compromise your safety.
And as I found recently there are many people that will take advantage of the lack of customers knowledge and charge extortionate prices; an electrician offered a periodic inspection for a "little" as £1,000!!! I think that this says it all...

 

[oharaf]

Lots of circuits then Albert I make it about 33!!!!robbing B'STARD!!

 

[Albert]

Lots of circuits then Albert I make it about 33!!!!robbing B'STARD!!

Not really 3 bedrooms, lounge, and the rest. I think that he counted every bulb as a circuit...