Mother in Law's electrics

[ChrisR]

House is 3 bed tce, built 1927.
Mother In Law lives there alone, now walking only with a frame. Built 1921.

Wiring has suffered some additions over the decades, but much of the original rubber covered stuff is still in use. Light switches and wall sockets are relatively new.
2 lighting and 2 socket circuits afair. I can check the earth arrangement next time I go, if it matters. (TN-S I think)

So far, there has been no random fuse-blowing, fires or fizzing noises. But the family is having an attack of the "What-if?"s.
M-I-L may well have to move out into a home within, say, a couple of years.

Meantime, she won't agree to anything being done in the house, until it stops working. Central heating only took 2 days to get installed but she resisted that until a few years ago, and hated it.
"Electric's lasted this long, it'll outlive me".
"Can't be doing with it".
"Bugger that"

Questions:
1) is it worth having any tests done? I fear my Megger would vapourize something.
2) short of a rewire, could any work usefully be done? EG adding one overall RCD?

3) IF something happens such that we are forced into a rewire, how long would it typically take a sparks, 2 man team? Surface wiring would be acceptable. They would have to fight their way through lino and layers of newspaper underneath, and a loft full of god-knows-what.
2-3 days?

 

[sparkwright]

I can re-wire an average old 3 bed occupied house in 5 days on my own. So two or three men should get on very well, as long as they don't get in each others way.

If the lady can be moved out during this time, it may be a bit quicker, as no need to put floors down and get some power working at the end of each day.

Old rubber cable does not respond well to being disturbed, so inspecting it may make it even worse.

The best advice is always going to be to rewire any installation in old rubber cable.

 

[flyingsparks]

I can re-wire an average old 3 bed occupied house in 5 days on my own. .

That's going some!

 

[sparkwright]

I can re-wire an average old 3 bed occupied house in 5 days on my own. .

That's going some!

I have a tried and tested method!

Typically this would be re-using old switch conduits, and surface mounted pattresses, as many of these type of jobs don't want any damage to the decor. But all wiring would be under floorboards.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

now walking only with a frame. Built 1921.

Modern ones are much lighter.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The best advice is always going to be to rewire any installation in old rubber cable.

I disagree.

IMO the best advice would always be to rewire in new PVC cable.

 

[ChrisR]

Modern ones are much lighter.

Yes, hers is white...

Rubber cable - PVC cable???
But I thought copper cable would be best.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

 

[securespark]

now walking only with a frame. Built 1921.

Modern ones are much lighter.

Oh!

I thought you meant she was built in 1921...!

 

[ericmark]

My mother is more modern built 1925 but I have the same problem. The kitchen had to be modernised to allow her to use it in a wheel chair so for the kitchen there is a 16mm SWA cable running outside the house and feeding a consumer unit with 6 RCBO's for central heating, hob, oven, kitchen ring etc.

As a result the rest of the house electrics are limited to a maximum draw of around 5A to run lawn mower or charge wheel chair. There is nothing she has which uses any power outside of the kitchen so I have taken the attitude it will wait until after she has gone before I need to do anything.

Garage, loft, showers and under floor heating are on RCD protection all being PVC insulated cables the lights have no earth and the sockets are not RCD protected did try but kept tripping and my mother can't get access to under stairs where consumer unit is to reset.

Kitchen CU on wall at waist hight so she could re-set but they have never tripped.

There is clearly a risk and one has to assess that risk. There is also a risk if a house is re-wired with the occupant in the house and with my mother it would mean moving her into a home while it was re-wired I simply could not trust her not to do something silly.

For one person to re-wire a house and keep to the rules is impossible if not occupied breaking health and safety working alone and if occupied no way could you guard against some one putting foot in hole with lifted floor board and pull in the cable. Yes I know we have all done it and in the main we get away with it but with a 93 year old woman shuffling about it is just not on.

Even with multi-workmen where some one can guard in the main if there are three men on a job all three men are working they are not guarding holes in the floor.

So only safe way is to get her out while it is re-wired. Although she may accept surface wiring likely within 10 years you will need to sell the house and so would likely need to re-wire again to bury the cables.

So I would calculate cost of care home with the cost of re-wire and clearly there would have to be a penalty clause to pay cost of care home should it over run.

My Uncle had a problem at home and we put him into a care home to correct the faults. However once in the care home he did not want to return home. So all work done was just a waste he never even saw it.

It is a hard call working out what is for best. My mothers house was built 1954 so more modern than yours. My grandfathers house was built around 1927 and that house has just 2 x 15A sockets and in the main items like the iron were plugged into the lights. When my mother and father moved into their new house in 1954 they were very proud as it had 5 x 13A sockets. This was considered very good.

I say that as if one walks around that house today there must be around 25 sockets not counting kitchen so likely 20 of those are spurs from a spur. When new consumer unit was fitted I used 20A MCB for sockets to allow for the fact likely spur from spur.

As to earthing on fitting new consumer unit electrician ran off into Corwen hills in Wales without completing and I found he had used the telephone party line earth stake as the earth and there was due to water and gas now being plastic no earth in the house. The DNO did give us an earth and it's now TN-C-S but it would seem the house had been IT for years since the water and gas mains were replaced so you do need to check the earth.

 

[plugwash]

The trouble with old rubber is it tends to go hard and brittle. As long as it doesn't move it can provide adequate insulation but when you move it the hard brittle insulation cracks. A bit more movement and you have a short.

I would be wary of testing because dismantling things to test them could easily cause their failure*.



* Am I the only one who thinks that we have a bit of a double standard on the one hand having rules about cable restraints to prevent stress on terminations and on the other hand having accessories designed such that any work on them inevitablly places stress on the wires and terminations.

 

[ChrisR]

Ericmark - thanks, point taken about her having to leave while a rewire is done. Might be easier for a fam member to sit with her for however long it takes.

As you say - hold breath and hope it "sees her out".
Daunting prospect for someone, one day - Concrete ramps fore and aft, asbestos garage, rewire, replumb, windows, replaster, bath, kitch, doors, polystyrene ceiling tiles...


I've since realised the sockets were diyed in PVC at some point, so not quite as big a risk. The lights remain rubber, no earths etc. Hopefully the 5A fuse will blow before a fire if there's a short. We've put a couple of emergency lights in.