New circuit needed?

[Dodgyrog]

Hi,

I'm converting an integral garage in my bungalow to a bedroom and a small workshop - workshop literally a 1.5m deep space behind the existing roller garage door which will stay.

There's enough existing sockets in the garage to serve the bedroom section and one double socket in the workshop space - which would do most of the time but I'll also brew beer every couple of weeks in there and this means a 2.4kW heater element, a 3kW heater element and a standard domestic kitchen extractor hood possibly running at same time for a period of 1 - 2 hours and there's already 2 fridges in there. So I could do with another set of sockets anyway but should I take the plunge and get an Electrician in to run an extra circuit? There's a new consumer unit already showing individual MCB's for "Kitchen Sockets, Study Sockets, Hall Socket, General Sockets, Outside Sockets"and with a spare available - it's only a 3 bed now 4 bed small / medium sized bungalow.

For various reasons its a bit of a faff getting someone out to have a look, but happily will do if its deemed worthwhile / necessary to keep the place compliant / safe.

Thanks in advance - a few free pints of homebrew to any extra helpful answers

 

[ericmark]

It would need more information to know exactly what is required, why 5.4 kW? I brew beer from kits, and I use a 18 watt heater to maintain fermenter temperature. I can see if brewing from ready malted grain likely a 3 kW boiler, but why two at same time?

What you are permitted to do depends where you live, England and Wales not the same, as to how much following the rules matter is up to you, in theory without expensive test equipment you should not do any electrical work, in practice we all know people do, at least in owner occupied.

If worried get an electrical installation condition report (EICR) once complete, this will not make it legal, but will give you piece of mind.

Due to LABC charges and Part P laws it is often cheaper to get a scheme member electrician to do the work than register the work with the LABC, what needs registering depends where you live, and also how you read the law, one can argue until the cows come home as to what "new" means with a new circuit. So that is up to you.

5.4 kW = 23.5 amp so it depends on the size of the MCB's also time, my wife moved things around in my kitchen and I see I have two 2.8 kW cup boilers on an extension lead which should blow the fuse, but to boil on cup of water is such a short time it has not blown the fuse even with 25 amp and 13 amp fuse, on my to do list.

 

[Dodgyrog]

It would need more information to know exactly what is required, why 5.4 kW? I brew beer from kits, and I use a 18 watt heater to maintain fermenter temperature. I can see if brewing from ready malted grain likely a 3 kW boiler, but why two at same time?

What you are permitted to do depends where you live, England and Wales not the same, as to how much following the rules matter is up to you, in theory without expensive test equipment you should not do any electrical work, in practice we all know people do, at least in owner occupied.

If worried get an electrical installation condition report (EICR) once complete, this will not make it legal, but will give you piece of mind.

Due to LABC charges and Part P laws it is often cheaper to get a scheme member electrician to do the work than register the work with the LABC, what needs registering depends where you live, and also how you read the law, one can argue until the cows come home as to what "new" means with a new circuit. So that is up to you.

5.4 kW = 23.5 amp so it depends on the size of the MCB's also time, my wife moved things around in my kitchen and I see I have two 2.8 kW cup boilers on an extension lead which should blow the fuse, but to boil on cup of water is such a short time it has not blown the fuse even with 25 amp and 13 amp fuse, on my to do list.

Howdy fellow brewer !

I do full grain brewing - using an "all in one" Robobrew Brewzilla so I'm boiling batches of 20 to 35 litres at a time for up to 90 minutes so theres a fair amount of heating going on. The Brewzilla has 1.9kW and 0.5kw heater elements which are used in various combinations during brewing, and then a 3kW tea urn which I use for heating the sparge water at the same time - it keeps the brew day a lot shorter that way. Fermentation stage is just a 40 watt heater in a converted fridge.

I wouldn't have thought it would be costly to have the work done - the cons. unit is in an airing cupboard and being a bungalow I'm assuming it would be up in to loft, horizontal run of about 5m and then down in to garage - I'd be happy with surface mounted conduit too to keep it quick and simple so no chasing in or tearing out.

I'm in England and would absolutely get an Electrician in to do the work - it's just a faff getting someone out to have an initial look (I travel a lot, Covid etc) and if they were to turn up and just said not necessary etc.... hence asking here first. The MCB's are a mixture of 16A and 32A but it's not easy to see which one feeds the garage.

Cheers

 

[flameport]

Post a photo of the consumer unit and surrounding area with the meter etc.

 

[Dodgyrog]

Post a photo of the consumer unit and surrounding area with the meter etc.

Here you go.

Cons unit is in airing cupboard on its own about 1 m down from ceiling and all wirings concealed, house was apparently rewired with new unit 3 - 4 years ago. The previous owners who put that in subsequently must have rejigged rooms around as there is no Study hence not easily to trace which rooms which. Meter is in the garage.

Thanks

MCB's

• Dodgyrog
• 8 Jan 2022

Meter

• Dodgyrog
• 8 Jan 2022

 

[ericmark]

Looking at your consumer unit

Study sockets, hallway sockets, and outside sockets only 16 amp so limited load on those circuits. But there should not be a problem if either more than one circuit or the ring final circuits are used.

Fermentation stage is just a 40 watt heater in a converted fridge.

That is going a bit OTT, in the freezer compartment of the fridge freezer found an 8 watt bulb was enough, however in the main use an 18 watt ex-demo under floor heating tile, this means heat in right place i.e. the bottom, but it takes time for the heat applied to alter temperature half way up the fermenter where the sensor is pressed against the fermenter under a sponge so fermenter temperature not air temperature. If heater too large it can over shoot. The freezer would often take air temperature down to 5°C before the fermenter cooled to 19°C and that was when using kits, so no boiling water, just used too much water out of kettle to wash all stuff out of can, so started at 22°C.

I looked at idea of doing more myself, however once one has saved the tax, any further saving by doing more yourself was minimal, so not worth it to get cheap beer, however clearly is worth it as part of a hobby, I have a spare cooker where I brew my beer, so easy enough to use a large pan, but seems a lot of hard work for very little gain.

P.S. also into photography so cleaned up your image a little to see MCB sizes.

 

[Dodgyrog]

Looking at your consumer unit
View attachment 256735
Study sockets, hallway sockets, and outside sockets only 16 amp so limited load on those circuits. But there should not be a problem if either more than one circuit or the ring final circuits are used.


That is going a bit OTT, in the freezer compartment of the fridge freezer found an 8 watt bulb was enough, however in the main use an 18 watt ex-demo under floor heating tile, this means heat in right place i.e. the bottom, but it takes time for the heat applied to alter temperature half way up the fermenter where the sensor is pressed against the fermenter under a sponge so fermenter temperature not air temperature. If heater too large it can over shoot. The freezer would often take air temperature down to 5°C before the fermenter cooled to 19°C and that was when using kits, so no boiling water, just used too much water out of kettle to wash all stuff out of can, so started at 22°C.

I looked at idea of doing more myself, however once one has saved the tax, any further saving by doing more yourself was minimal, so not worth it to get cheap beer, however clearly is worth it as part of a hobby, I have a spare cooker where I brew my beer, so easy enough to use a large pan, but seems a lot of hard work for very little gain.

P.S. also into photography so cleaned up your image a little to see MCB sizes.

Top job thanks.

Yes the 40 watt heater is over the top - it was a freebie - I get fairly consistent results though as I use an Inkbird controller to keep the chamber continually at 21 deg C even when not in use so when I put the brew already cooled to 21 straight in after brewing it settles down fairly well. Some brews I do need 35 degs C so its like a sauna in there, but the 40 watt-er prob still doesn't break in to a sweat.

You're right, if you want to save money then home brewing is not the way. I'm an engineer / proper process nerd and really enjoy the hobby aspect as well as building / collecting gear - I've a lovely upright fridge I converted to a 5 keg kegerator, with all the fancy taps and always 4 different brews on tap that family and friends all really enjoy. Having worked with breweries as part of my job and a lot of brew training I'd stick my neck out and say it's very good stuff...... but yeah, it'll be years before I come anywhere near to recouping the financial outlay but it also kept me sane through lockdown .

Bottoms up