Part P ignorance - am I beyond help?

[chumpoftheyear]

Hi there,

In 2006, I fitted a new kitchen, and while I was at it, I tidied up and made some changes to the wiring [detail: extended the ring main and added extra sockets, wired in fused spurs off the ring for below-worktop sockets for W/M and D/W, re-routed the cooker circuit so that the isolator switch was not over the gas hob, wired an extractor into the cooker circuit - using appropriately rated cable, etc]. I'm confident I followed best practice for these alterations, and was happy in my own mind that I did a safe and competent job. As far I know, the only non-compliant part of the work is that I used old-colour cables (black/red).

HOWEVER, when I untook this project, I did not know that this work is now controlled by Part P of the buidling regs, and that it should have been carried out someone who could issue the relevant paperwork. Or alternatively that I should have notified the building authority and had it signed off by them.

I realise now that I have made a first class blunder, and unfortunately, I have only realised this as we are about to sell our house. I don't want to waste our buyer's time, and don't want to give them misleading information. So can anyone help me with:

1) What questions are likely to be asked by the buyer's solicitor? Will the question be as specific as "have you had any Part P electrical work done? Do you have the cerftificates". In which case, I'm in big trouble. If there are no questions about when jobs were done, then this work could have just as easily been done prior to part P.

2) Is there ANYTHING I can do to retrospectively get this work checked and signed off? Will a friendly electrician take pity on me and inspect my work and produce the paperwork if he approves it? Will a full electrical safety inspection give validity to all of the wiring in the house (assuming it passes)? The only problem with this latter solution is that my house has oldish (1970s) wiring, so the fusebox and earthing is dated and likely to flag up other problems for the buyer.

Feel free to chastise, condemn and generally give me a hard time for my stupidity. If you could footnote this with any helpful suggestions (preferably not: rip out the kitchen and rewire it) then so much the better.

Thanks

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As far I know, the only non-compliant part of the work is that I used old-colour cables (black/red).

Since that is perfectly safe, it is not in contravention of the Building Regulations.

1) What questions are likely to be asked by the buyer's solicitor? Will the question be as specific as "have you had any Part P electrical work done? Do you have the cerftificates". In which case, I'm in big trouble. If there are no questions about when jobs were done, then this work could have just as easily been done prior to part P.

Not having bought or sold a house for 20 years I have no personal experience, but I believe that questions about notifiable work and/or relevant Building Regulations approval for any work done are pretty standard these days. And that therefore implies questions about when work was done.

No doubt people with more recent experience can clarify/expand.

2) Is there ANYTHING I can do to retrospectively get this work checked and signed off?

No.

Will a friendly electrician take pity on me and inspect my work and produce the paperwork if he approves it?

No.

Will a full electrical safety inspection give validity to all of the wiring in the house (assuming it passes)?

It may reassure the buyer, but won't resolve your legal position. Not that you are at all likely to be prosecuted for failing to notify.

The only problem with this latter solution is that my house has oldish (1970s) wiring, so the fusebox and earthing is dated and likely to flag up other problems for the buyer.

If you could footnote this with any helpful suggestions (preferably not: rip out the kitchen and rewire it) then so much the better.

Whatever you are asked, do not lie, because that takes you into the realms of fraud.

Be prepared to stump up for a PIR. And a Building Regs indemnity policy (even though these are usually pointless).

Hope your buyer hates your new kitchen and plans to rip it out anyway.

Be prepared for your buyer to use your DIY wiring as a reason to knock the price down.

 

[Adam_151]

1) What questions are likely to be asked by the buyer's solicitor? Will the question be as specific as "have you had any Part P electrical work done? Do you have the cerftificates". In which case, I'm in big trouble. If there are no questions about when jobs were done, then this work could have just as easily been done prior to part P.

There should be a form that asks about things such as ownership of boundry fences, any wayleave agreements, whether you've had any fallings out with the neighbours and if the ex is buried in the back garden, there will be a box asking if correct building control notification was obtained for all notifiable works, or something like that

2) Is there ANYTHING I can do to retrospectively get this work checked and signed off?Will a friendly electrician take pity on me and inspect my work and produce the paperwork if he approves it?

The thing is, there are two halves if it were to certification, to comply with BS7671 the relevant certificate needs to be filled out, there is a three part one that has different sections to be signed by the designer, the installer and the guy who tests and inspects it, if you were to sign as the designer and the installer and an electrician could do the third part...this however does not cerifiy it in respect of the building regulations, you might be best off accepting the lack of a BS7671 certificate as a given (there are loads of installations missing certificates) and just focusing on getting BR approval

The other half the the tricky part, it needs to be signed off by a building control officier, there are two ways that this happens normally, a registed elenctrician does the work, tells their registration body, and they inform building control, and building control sign it off automatically as it was done by a registered electrician (now its possible you might be able to find an electrician who is prepared to make out that he did the work, and if you can, good for you... but its not supposed to happen), the other way LABC signoffs happen is the traditional notify 48 hours in advance and they inspect, etc, You'll be pleased to know however that for cases like yours, you can submit a regulisation building notice, and generally for electricial a PIR (periodic inspection report) is the recommended way of proving compliance with P1 for this, and usually a quick visual poke around by the BCO for other parts, I'd imagine)

Will a full electrical safety inspection give validity to all of the wiring in the house (assuming it passes)?

A satisfactory PIR will certainly give the buyers that warm feeling that everything is safe, and should also be usful if you go to your LABC for a regulisation application

The only problem with this latter solution is that my house has oldish (1970s) wiring, so the fusebox and earthing is dated and likely to flag up other problems for the buyer.

Earthing should have been brought upto scratch before doing work I'm afraid, and if thats true then you might get an unsatisfactory PIR and need remedial works

Feel free to chastise, condemn and generally give me a hard time for my stupidity. If you could footnote this with any helpful suggestions (preferably not: rip out the kitchen and rewire it) then so much the better.

You should be honest about what you have done if it gets flagged up, (doing otherwise would leave you open to civil action), expect it to take a little longer and be open to compromise a bit, I expect it'll probably be in the form of a PIR (and if thats unsatisfactory, then either remedial works, or haggling a little off to cover them), and perhaps an indemnity policy which covers the buyer incase LABC decide to come and chase them (they won't unless its a complete balls up!, but its standard practice)

I personally wouldn't go chasing after a 3-part EIC or a regulsation application unless they are requested, although I've explained about them so you are aware of them

 

[chumpoftheyear]

Thanks both for your informative and measured responses! Really useful info.

After reading your posts - and particularly your point Adam about a regularisation building notice - I rang my LABC just now. I fessed up to work I'd done, explained that I am not certified, and asked what I needed to do to regularise the work. I was told that for £60 I can simply submit a retrospective application with a plan showing the changes and that will likely be able to be processed within a couple of days without even having an inspection.

If it really does turn out to be this straightforward to sort the BR side of things then I shall be very relieved. Thank you again for your great posts.

 

[JohnD]

which council is that?

 

[Richard C]

Thanks both for your informative and measured responses! Really useful info.

After reading your posts - and particularly your point Adam about a regularisation building notice - I rang my LABC just now. I fessed up to work I'd done, explained that I am not certified, and asked what I needed to do to regularise the work. I was told that for £60 I can simply submit a retrospective application with a plan showing the changes and that will likely be able to be processed within a couple of days without even having an inspection.

If it really does turn out to be this straightforward to sort the BR side of things then I shall be very relieved. Thank you again for your great posts.

If an LABC is that cavalier about it, it really does make a total nonsense of it all . It makes me wonder why I’m bothering (on my renovation) to attempt to comply with all this carp legislation thrown up in the last few years!

 

[barera]

Welcome to te real world Richard...Happens all the time mate!

 

[Richard C]

Welcome to te real world Richard...Happens all the time mate!

Does that mean I can get my turn then

 

[plugwash]

2) Is there ANYTHING I can do to retrospectively get this work checked and signed off?

No.

There is a process known as regularisation where you can get building control to come and inspect existing work and issue a completion certificate. IIRC it is a bit more expensive than regular building control notification but not hugely so.

A quick google finds http://www.iwight.com/living_here/planning/Building_Control/General_Advice/regulari.asp , I imagine the procedure for other LABCs will be similar.

 

[NickStone]

Bit late to answer this, given that the OP has already told Building Control but thought I'd add my twopenceworth as I've bought 2 properties and sold one over the past couple of years. First off, anyone who buys a place is in the position of Buyer Beware. The last place I bought had loads of DIY electrical work and my surveyor suggested I get the place checked out by a qualified electrician. I did and the electrician fixed the stuff just after completion. I wouldn't have dreamed of relying on what the seller said on any form. In any event the new Part P regs only came in a couple of years ago and a property could have had unsafe work done prior to that date.

Second, when sellers answer the legal questions on the form sent to them by the buyer's solicitor, they do have to be honest but usually there's an opportunity to pass the buck. For example, if you are asked if you have the relevant certificates of compliance, you can simply say 'No'. The buyer is not building control and as far as I am aware, conveyancing solicitors are not agents whose role is to report errant householders to the relevant council. If there's any doubt about safety, either the buyer's surveyor or the solicitor will simply tell the buyer to get it checked.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Or if it becomes a buyer's market, as it might well, the buyer could ask the seller to drop the price....

 

[jpdw]

Or if it becomes a buyer's market, as it might well, the buyer could ask the seller to drop the price....

Would the most costly case but lowest risk route be to get a PIR done, fix (or get fixed) anything remedial that relates to the DIY work then go cap-in-hand to the council to get a regularisation cert? Whilst this would be costly (but what? likely under £1000) it could avoid having any buyer trying to take larger chunks out of their offer **

** my logic being that in a buyers market, with a property at, say, 300-400k, the buyer is going to look for excuses to take several k off the price, not just £500 etc ...