Pond supply

[Aragorn84]

In our garden we have a fairly big pond, which has a some filters, pumps, UV lights and suchlike.

I want to sort out the electrical supply to the pond but i'd like some thoughts/ideas on the tidiest way to sort this.

At the moment, each unit has a long rubber flex which trails across the ground, across a gravel path, up the shed wall and in thru a hole, before plugging into a standard trailing socket inside. Theres currently 5 such flexes.

It works but its a lashup and needs fixed.

There appears to be units on the market intended to "fix" this situation like this:

http://www.pondsuperstores.com/products/Blagdon-Powersafe-5-Switch-Box.html

However they seem very expensive, and have one major shortcoming; they're designed to take a normal flex for the supply. This means i'll still have a flex trailing across the garden. Complete waste of time...

I guess what i need is some sort of box or panel, that i can bring an SWA cable into, and have proper glanded fittings for the flex. That way i can have the SWA buried in the ground safely out of harms way, and all the connections made in a safe waterproof accessible location

I've come across some "Garage" or other similar distribution boards which have fairly high IP ratings:

http://www.discount-electrical.co.u...ith-1-x-32a---1-x-6a-mcbs---40a-30ma-rcd-ip55

But i'm not sure they're really suitable for mounting outdoors, even if in theory IP55 should be plenty.

The other thought i had was a proper steel waterproof enclosure, something like:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCHNEIDER-ELECTRIC-NSYCRN325150-ENCLOSURE-STEEL-IP66-/281330068049

Which i could put normal accessories inside. Again though, they're very expensive new, unless i find an ebay bargain.

Thoughts?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

There appears to be units on the market intended to "fix" this situation like this:

http://www.pondsuperstores.com/products/Blagdon-Powersafe-5-Switch-Box.html

However they seem very expensive, and have one major shortcoming; they're designed to take a normal flex for the supply. This means i'll still have a flex trailing across the garden. Complete waste of time...

This is designed to be installed outside and can be placed in nearby location to the pond, therefore you will require one supply cable form garage to it and can connect all the pond equipment to this, reducing multi trailing flexes across the garden. http://www.pondpumpsdirect.com/_BlagdonArmouredCableKit.pdf

I guess what i need is some sort of box or panel, that i can bring an SWA cable into, and have proper glanded fittings for the flex. That way i can have the SWA buried in the ground safely out of harms way, and all the connections made in a safe waterproof accessible location

As above item.

I've come across some "Garage" or other similar distribution boards which have fairly high IP ratings:

http://www.discount-electrical.co.u...ith-1-x-32a---1-x-6a-mcbs---40a-30ma-rcd-ip55

But i'm not sure they're really suitable for mounting outdoors, even if in theory IP55 should be plenty.

If the intention is to have this as a distribution board in the shed, it will do fine as will many others, but this is not designed to be installed outdoors.

The other thought i had was a proper steel waterproof enclosure, something like:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCHNEIDER-ELECTRIC-NSYCRN325150-ENCLOSURE-STEEL-IP66-/281330068049

Which i could put normal accessories inside. Again though, they're very expensive new, unless i find an ebay bargain.

Something like this would be more suitable http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p63...=25046297783&gclid=CMTygO_mqr4CFe3JtAod7GwAlQ

 

[ericmark]

The Blagdon unit would seem to have been designed to get around the old English and current Welsh Part P regulations and allowed one to fit a garden supply without employing a scheme member electrician or paying the LABC silly fees. Compared with those fees £60 was/is cheap. I don't know what the Scottish regulations are so don't no if this type of system is required to keep it within the law.

Personally I think a proper unit is far better but there are two basic ways.

1) Completely seal.
2) Mount in a way no direct rain and any condensate can drain.

To completely seal is hard. Electric makes things warm up and air expands and escapes once that power is removed a part vacuum is formed and any water is sucked in. The easy cure is to have no air. There are re-enterable compounds you can use to fill the box and dig out again if required.

But to me if shed is handy then using that as shelter from direct rain is a far better idea. Do remember there is a big difference between weather proof and water proof if buried then you want water proof but if above ground a shelter which could be like a over sized bird box is often better with of course drain holes in the bottom to allow any condensate to drain.

I would avoid steel boxes one they rust and two which is more important any fault could make the box live plastic box in a wood protective unit (shed) is far better.

As to RCD protection 30ma will protect you but note that often 10ma is used with ponds to better protect the fish. It would seem however that 10ma fixed RCD's are very expensive but there are some plug in ones which are more reasonable so before you buy your enclosure look at RCD prices as this may modify how you do the job.

 

[Aragorn84]

This is designed to be installed outside and can be placed in nearby location to the pond, therefore you will require one supply cable form garage to it and can connect all the pond equipment to this, reducing multi trailing flexes across the garden. http://www.pondpumpsdirect.com/_BlagdonArmouredCableKit.pdf

I understand the point, but one trailing flex or 5 trailing flexes is equally ****. The kit you linked does sort of solve the problem, but is a proper lash up with external connectors joining onto the SWA, is bonkers money and only has 3 outlets. If they did a 5 outlet version for half the money then it might be sort of acceptable, but the idea of using SWA then having an external joint to me seems pretty crap.

If the intention is to have this as a distribution board in the shed, it will do fine as will many others, but this is not designed to be installed outdoors.

No the intention is to put *something* outside next to the pond. The shed already has a nice DB. I did suspect that people would say you cant put a DB like that outside, but i'm struggling to comprehend the IP ratings. IP55 or IP65 both mean they can withstand a jet of water for over 15 minutes, which sounds fairly impressive, so why would you say a particular unit ISNT suitable for outdoors use even though it has a high IP rating?

Something like this would be more suitable http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p63...7783&gclid=CMTygO_mqr4CFe3JtAod7GwAlQ[/QUOTE]

But that has a lower IP rating than both the DB above and the steel cabinet i linked. Why do you suggest that IPx4 is fine for outdoors use, but IPx5 or IPx6 is not?

I'm pretty sure i've seen those steel schnieder boxes outside before. I'm fairly sure my local rugby park has one mounted to one of its floodlights, presumably as a control board for the flood lighting, and i'm sure i've seen them used in other outdoor applications in various sizes.

 

[Aragorn84]

The Blagdon unit would seem to have been designed to get around the old English and current Welsh Part P regulations and allowed one to fit a garden supply without employing a scheme member electrician or paying the LABC silly fees. Compared with those fees £60 was/is cheap. I don't know what the Scottish regulations are so don't no if this type of system is required to keep it within the law.

Personally I think a proper unit is far better but there are two basic ways.

1) Completely seal.
2) Mount in a way no direct rain and any condensate can drain.

To completely seal is hard. Electric makes things warm up and air expands and escapes once that power is removed a part vacuum is formed and any water is sucked in. The easy cure is to have no air. There are re-enterable compounds you can use to fill the box and dig out again if required.

But to me if shed is handy then using that as shelter from direct rain is a far better idea. Do remember there is a big difference between weather proof and water proof if buried then you want water proof but if above ground a shelter which could be like a over sized bird box is often better with of course drain holes in the bottom to allow any condensate to drain.

I would avoid steel boxes one they rust and two which is more important any fault could make the box live plastic box in a wood protective unit (shed) is far better.

As to RCD protection 30ma will protect you but note that often 10ma is used with ponds to better protect the fish. It would seem however that 10ma fixed RCD's are very expensive but there are some plug in ones which are more reasonable so before you buy your enclosure look at RCD prices as this may modify how you do the job.

The blagdon unit does appear to be a way for "average joe" to lash up some garden power without calling in a spark. But i like to do things properly, and one way to think about it, is if it was a commercial job, they certainly wouldnt have lashed up that blagdon box beside the pond with the silly SWA conversion kit would they?

I wouldnt be mounting anything underground, bar the SWA itself i guess, I he panel would be mounted to a wall or post next to the pond, where the filters are located. Putting anything in the shed means you need to get the cables TO the shed, which is what i want to avoid.

Steel enclosure doesnt bother me too much, if the SWA is glanded into the box and the box is earthed its not going to magically become live is it? Rust might be an issue, but many electrical enclosures live outdoors, its just the case of getting the right thing.

The Shed DB already has a 30ma RCD, i guess i could look into 10ma ones, but thats sort of a secondary point to getting the external part right.

 

[ericmark]

I wouldnt be mounting anything underground, bar the SWA itself i guess, I he panel would be mounted to a wall or post next to the pond, where the filters are located. Putting anything in the shed means you need to get the cables TO the shed, which is what i want to avoid.

A simply roof above a box mounted on a wall so no direct rain is likely good enough. Clearly you would not work on it in the rain.

There is a very good guide to IP rating here which points out with silly pictures how simple things like a hanging basket on a wall can change the environment. In the main a wall means unlikely to get driving rain at that point.

It is down to common sense my garden has fences all around and a bird table with a roof would be good enough to keep any electric box reasonable dry. OK once in a while a wind may cause it to get wet but even in the house I could trip with a cup in my hand.

In the main IP54 is considered good enough for outside if there is a simple roof above it.

 

[greasedmonkey]

I had a similar situation when we bought our house. Found that the pond supply was not earthed, when connecting the cpc it threw out the RCD. Turned out that the "waterproof" socket and switch box on the pond were both full of water. I looked into various options and in the end decided to build a small shed next to the pond, I then ran SWA to this and used normal sockets and timers etc inside it to run the pumps, lights, UV filter, magnetic blanket weed thing and air pumps. I found this to be a good solution for me and it provides a little space to keep the associated pond bits in as well.

The shed is only 1 foot deep, 2'6" wide and 2" high.

Edit: forgot to mention the shed is built on stilts to keep it 6" above the ground with ventilation in the floor.

 

[ericmark]

That's what I was trying to say. Make it into a feature it can look like a wishing well as long as it keeps main weather off box.

 

[Aragorn84]

Yeh makes sense, unfortunately the pond is right in the middle of the garden, which makes it slightly more tricky to build a "small shed" as it would look sort of odd. The garden also suffered from shed-overkill when we moved in, and we removed quite a few of them. I suspect the other half wouldnt be too happy with the suggestion that i put up another one!

Heres an old pic of the garden (we've since removed many of the sheds, and moved the filters to the triangular area on the left side of the pond) The flexes currently cross the gravel path and enter the building on the left.

Schneider sell a "canopy" for their boxes which they say makes them suitable for use outside:

http://www.todaycomponents.com/media/datasheet/NSYTJ2515.pdf

I was thinking one of those boxes (300x250 or thereabouts) would sit quite nicely mounted to a post in the corner of the triangular area, and i could use normal accessories inside.

Does this sound reasonable?

 

[greasedmonkey]

. The garden also suffered from shed-overkill when we moved in, and we removed quite a few of them. I suspect the other half wouldnt be too happy with the suggestion that i put up another one!

In that case, tell her it's an "electrics cabinet" then it's not a shed. Or put a large round top on it and make it into a picnic table.

If the filter boxes are an issue, you can get a canister type that you bury in the ground. I swapped the filter boxes for one and I can recommend it. Cleaning is so easy, just turn a knob and pull a handle and it reverses the flow through the filter and pumps all the crap out onto a flower bed. The plants love it.

http://mobile.oase-livingwater.com/...t]=340&cHash=44affc973e3d0248e7f0dea107e341c2

 

[bernardgreen]

Try a large bird table. Put the electrics under the feeding table, use a hollow column and there wont be any visible cables.

Also brings the electrics to a sensible height so no back bending to work on them.

 

[JohnW2]

Yeh makes sense, unfortunately the pond is right in the middle of the garden, which makes it slightly more tricky to build a "small shed" as it would look sort of odd.

It wouldn't have to look like a shed - it could, say, look like a stone garden feature.

Kind Regards, John