Proton Pump Inhibitors

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I've deleted my last post from the other thread and copied it here because it was getting derailed:

Omeprazole and lansoprazole aren't "stronger" lumps of alkali, they're Proton Pump Inhibtors, which reduce the production of acid in the first place, from the specific cells in the stomach.(parietal cells). The ranitidine group do a similar thing in a slightly different way, a histamine thing. Long term taking of PPIs can cause a few things like calcium deficiency, but a lot of peopledo take them long-term.
Gaviscon is carbonates but the Plus/extra versions have the seaweed alginate foam which calms things physically. I had a voice-box funny and was prescribed the latter.

I know quite a bit about how PPIs work. They drastically increase stomach pH, from about ph 1.5 to about ph 5 on average. This is an absolutely huge difference, because the scale is logarithmic, we're looking at more than 1000 times less acidic. I'm not sure such a drastic change to the body's internals is necessary or desirable. Presumably the human stomach is designed to be very acidic for a reason. I would rather take a single antacid two days out of three, for a bit of mild indigestion. And anyway, I'm still only taking about 10% of the amount of somebody who is taking calcium carbonate supplements.

I'm very much in favour of most modern medical practice, but I really do think this is a case of over medication for people with very mild problems like mine. I think a serious outcome like Harry's was very unusual with such mild symptoms.

And there are links to very serious long term side effects (proper ones in medical journals!) after twenty years (+) now of millions of people being prescribed them long term.
 
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As I understand it the PPIs inhibit the acid-producing cells from producing acid which is needed for digestion.
They''d be overwhelmed when you eat something but encourage things to return to more neutral levels if the stomach's empty - which it is most of the time : Ph5 is still acid, and not abnormal.

A common problem is the oesophagus becoming acidic, which it shouldn't be. My mother got a hiatus hernia , which generally implies a protrusion of the oesophagus into the stomach, but in her case was a general buggeration of the plumbing - we had a scan. The sphincter down there gets compromised by the effect of the acid on the tubing and stops it sealing off, which makes the problem worse. PPIs cured hers quite quickly.

Curiously, when I looked it up back then, the sphincter is called the cardiac sphincter(!). To do with the Cardia of the stomach, whichever bit that is.
 
Ive just been perscribed PPI's because I take Ibuprofen for painfull knee joints, am having a replacement on 4th April, then book in for other to be done if first is succesfull, when Pharmacist with GP's practice perscribed them he said not for longer than a year as they can havs serious side effects long term, I was starting to get a bit of heartburn and slight acid reflux but thats gone now, Iv'e been on them about a month and my digestion seems fine.
 
Ph5 is still acid, and not abnormal.

pH5 is 1000 times less acidic than pH2.

I think the person who wrote that article has got things a bit backwards in one respect. Stomach pH is lowest when fasted (maybe pH2) then rises quickly to maybe pH4-6 when we eat, and then drops back again quite quickly to about pH2. To have your stomach most of the time about pH5 is not normal. But whether humans still actually need such an acidic stomach is an interesting question. Our diet probably has a lot fewer dangerous bacteria etc. than when we first evolved. Here is two lots of research showing normal stomach pHs compared with people on PPIs, showing the effect of meals. The difference is about pH3 or 1000 times less acidic.

Median-24-hr-intragastric-pH-median-pH-per-hour-profiles-in-Helicobacter.png



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A common problem is the oesophagus becoming acidic, which it shouldn't be. My mother got a hiatus hernia , which generally implies a protrusion of the oesophagus into the stomach, but in her case was a general buggeration of the plumbing - we had a scan. The sphincter down there gets compromised by the effect of the acid on the tubing and stops it sealing off, which makes the problem worse. PPIs cured hers quite quickly.

If your mother has the option, I would push for her to be given endoscopies as often as possible on her oesophagus to monitor its condition. PPIs stop the symptoms of heartburn from a hiatal hernia, but gastric juices will still be entering her oesophagus. They just won't "burn" her as much.

EDIT: They won't burn because they will be massively less acidic. But they will still be where they're not supposed to be.
 
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a case of over medication for people with very mild problems like mine.............links to very serious long term side effects ..........millions of people being prescribed them long term.
I have a policy of avoiding all drugs. All drugs have long-term and short term side effects, just look at the big fold-out leaflets that accompany each box of pills. In some cases the "side effects" are not that; they are the principle effects. I know many people who are on "steroids" for various conditions; the long term effects of these are horrendous. The pharmaceutical industry has a vested interest in keeping people ill, or convincing folk they are ill.
I was starting to get a bit of heartburn and slight acid reflux but thats gone now, Iv'e been on them about a month and my digestion seems fine.
My doctor gave me lansaprazole after I complained of repeated heartburn and indigestion about 10 years ago. I took one of them and it made me feel rough all of the following day, so I handed them back in. That was possibly the last time I took a prescribed or non-prescribed drug. The indigestion went away by my finding out the cause of it and remedying it. (Over-eating, under eating, eating too late at night, eating too much of certain foods). Most illnesses we suffer are caused by our lifestyles and can be fixed by ourselves.
Ive just been perscribed PPI's because I take Ibuprofen for painfull knee joints,
This is a situation I would not like to be in: taking a drug to overcome the effects of another drug. Hope the knee replacement goes well, I know many people who have had this done and they say it gives new lease of life.
 
pH5 is 1000 times less acidic than pH2.

I think the person who wrote that article has got things a bit backwards in one respect. Stomach pH is lowest when fasted (maybe pH2) then rises quickly to maybe pH4-6 when we eat, and then drops back again quite quickly to about pH2. To have your stomach most of the time about pH5 is not normal. But whether humans still actually need such an acidic stomach is an interesting question. Our diet probably has a lot fewer dangerous bacteria etc. than when we first evolved. Here is two lots of research showing normal stomach pHs compared with people on PPIs, showing the effect of meals. The difference is about pH3 or 1000 times less acidic.

Websites disagree wildly - I just looked at about 8! Some say "becomes more acidic, to pH 6". Uuh???
Some say pH goes one way when you eat, some say the other.
I think I've found the problem. Took a while for the penny to drop.

The point we're/they're missing is the amount of acid being produced is key not just "the pH".
(If you just say measure pH, it probably depends where, when, and if it's peak or average)
A little HCl is pH2, say. But so is a lot of HCl. Trouble is, it then escapes to where it shouldn't.
At rest, not much is produced. When you eat, the pH shoots UP (less acid) because food/saliva is neutral-ish and as I said, overwhelming, but then, so does the acid production. When the food's gone, the acid production should drop right off, to balance the saliva being swallowed.
In some folk it doesn't, so there's too much acid for too long and it escapes the stomach and they get ulcers etc. [edit]I just found on medscape that it's a volume problem.

The pH scale is logarithmic and inversely indicates the concentration of hydrogen ions in the solution.
"X times as acidic" isn't very useful. pH5 is 100 times more acidic than normal water at pH7. Which isn't acidic ;)
Wassmore, Neutral pH in the stomach doesn't cause ulcers.

As reflected in the oesophageal pH (which apparently is used to diagnose excess stomach acidity ), the pH goes up , to resting levels, at night. To pH 6 or so in the oesophagus. Some people's pH there stays low, so they need medication, as they're producing acid for too long and develop ulcers and whatnot.
HCl is produced (more acidic) when you eat something - (vagus nerve >pepsin prodn stimulated).
From what I can find there is NO sensor of these acids in the digestive tract, so unlike blood pH (which has acid sensors) there's nothing to drive the para/sympathetic nervous system to specifically drive the normal feedback mechanism and turn off acid production.

But I haven't found an authoritative complete description . Yet! I'll be back when I do.
THis fuzzy slide shows op OK at night. (Below pH4 leads to acid reflux)

pH overnight.jpg


This shows what happens when there's too much acid/chyme, if the PPI dose is too low. I don't understand why the reflux doesn't show in the oesophagus.

1678486944107.png


Found a few snags if the acid reduction is too much:

Adverse effects​

Adverse effects of proton pump inhibitors (PPIs) are usually mild and reversible.
  • Adverse effects include headache, diarrhoea, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, constipation, and dizziness.
  • Less common adverse effects include dry mouth, peripheral oedema, sleep disturbance, fatigue, paraesthesia, arthralgia, myalgia, pruritus, and rash.
  • Rare or very rare adverse effects include:
    • Subacute cutaneous lupus erythematosus (SCLE), which can occur weeks, months, or years after exposure to a PPI. If suspected discontinue the PPI and seek specialist advice if needed [MHRA, 2015].
    • Severe cutaneous adverse reactions (SCARs) including Stevens-Johnson syndrome (SJS), toxic epidermal necrolysis (TEN), drug reaction with eosinophilia and systemic symptoms (DRESS), and acute generalized exanthematous pustulosis (AGEP) have been reported very rarely, and rarely with omeprazole treatment.
    • Taste disturbance, hepatitis, jaundice, depression, confusion, hallucinations, hyponatraemia, interstitial nephritis, leucopenia, leucocytosis, pancytopenia, thrombocytopenia, visual disturbances, sweating, photophobia, and alopecia.
  • Long-term PPI treatment may be associated with uncommon, serious adverse effects such as:
    • Hypomagnesaemia — symptoms include muscle twitching, tremors, vomiting, fatigue, and loss of appetite. Case reports after one year of PPI therapy, but may occur after 3 months. This usually improves after magnesium replacement therapy and discontinuation of the PPI [MHRA, 2012a]. Hypomagnesaemia may lead to hypocalcaemia and/or hypokalaemia.
    • Increased risk of fractures — especially when used at high doses for over a year in the elderly [MHRA, 2012b].
    • Clostridium difficile infection — due to the effect of decreasing gastric acidity.
    • Rebound acid hypersecretion syndrome — may occur after stopping long-term PPI therapy, although this may be more a theoretical risk than clinical phenomenon.
[NICE, 2019; BNF, 2022; ABPI Medicines Compendium, 2022]
 

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If your mother has the option, I would push for her to be given endoscopies as often as possible on her oesophagus to monitor its condition. PPIs stop the symptoms of heartburn from a hiatal hernia, but gastric juices will still be entering her oesophagus. They just won't "burn" her as much.

EDIT: They won't burn because they will be massively less acidic. But they will still be where they're not supposed to be.
ee missed the point. The extra acid compromised the valve, and surroundings, the valve leaked, then positive feedback....
PPI stopped the excess acid, so everything mended. No leak. They used standard radiography.
 
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Opramazole etc have been getting linked with increased dementia for a number of years
 
I've been taking a PPI for a few years now. It's a hereditary thing in my case, some relatives have the same issue. Before I started taking them I had a sore throat and hoarse voice almost every day that was worst in the mornings - as my stomach acid had been tipping into my throat while asleep.

I did try the various chalky types of things and found them useless. Also Gaviscon didn't have any effect at all.

I'm generally anti-medication. But I definitely make an exception for these, they work brilliantly. If they have long term side-effects then that's a fair price I'm aware of and willing to pay, as I felt terrible every day without them. I wouldn't rely on gossip on an internet forum to find out any side effects, there are lots of proper sources for data.

I had a terrible reaction to omeprazole, I tried it a few times and woke up close to vomiting after 2-3 days. But esomeprazole works perfectly. It's almost the same thing, but whatever tweak it has means it doesn't cause me problems. Sadly it's still under UK patent so expensive, but I buy them online from India where the patent has expired so they cost less than half the price of a UK NHS prescription fee, plus I can stock up and don't need to mess about every month. Obviously proceed with extreme caution if doing this. Mine are not prescribed but I've asked my GP and have been told they don't object to me buying them OTC and taking them potentially for ever. I didn't tell them I was buying them from India!

People who have this sort of issue are at risk if they don't take them, as the acid erosion of the throat can lead to cancer. It's easy for those with no health issues to preach remaining drug-free, but others need to make the right decision for themselves, regardless of principles. Nature's way is actually that lots of people should be ill and dying from various causes, good health doesn't always come naturally.
 
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