The Renting Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) (Wales) Regulations 2022 and EICR.

[ericmark]

I have been reading The Renting Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) (Wales) Regulations 2022 and to be frank not sure what it means as far as an EICR goes, it does refer to BS 7671:2018+A2:2022 it says inspection every 5 years, and 14 days to pass over the report, and that

“qualified person” (“person cymwysedig”) means a person who is competent to undertake the inspection and testing of an electrical service installation, and any further investigative or remedial work, in accordance with the electrical safety standards;

But nothing about what is a pass or fail, and how long one is allowed to do the repairs. It clearly means homes must be inspected, but does not really say much about what happens after. Nothing about what code is a pass or fail, clearly dangerous is a fail, no argument about that, but what about potentially dangerous? Or further investigation? if the landlord decides to do only items flagged as dangerous is he clear?

 

[RandomGrinch]

Not specific at all (does it need to be?), but this was also in the notes:

 

[ericmark]

I can see many questions arising, but one wonders if details left off on purpose, court cases cost money, just scare people into making homes safe?

 

[JohnW2]

I have been reading The Renting Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) (Wales) Regulations 2022 and to be frank not sure what it means as far as an EICR goes, it does refer to BS 7671:2018+A2:2022 it says inspection every 5 years, and 14 days to pass over the report, ...

OK, ... so somewhat more specific than the English one, then - as well as referring to a non-Welsh document.

and that ...

similar (identical?) to England, then.

But nothing about what is a pass or fail, ....

Same for England, but that information is included in the associated "Guidance for Landlords" document (is there a Welsh equivalent?) - butt, as above, at least the Welsh legislation mentions BS7671, whereas in England it's only motioned in the guidance document.

and how long one is allowed to do the repairs. ...

That does differ from England, and seems a bit odd.

Kind Regards, John

 

[RandomGrinch]

Same for England, but that information is included in the associated "Guidance for Landlords" document (is there a Welsh equivalent?)

Yes:

Fitness of homes for human habitation: guidance for landlords [HTML] | GOV.WALES

Explains what landlords must do from 1 December 2022 to ensure their property is in good repair and fit for human habitation.

www.gov.wales

Ffitrwydd tai i fod yn gartref: canllawiau i landlordiaid [HTML] | LLYW.CYMRU

Esbonio beth sy'n rhaid i landlordiaid wneud o 1 Rhagfyr 2022 i sicrhau bod eu heiddo mewn cyflwr da ac yn ffit i fod yn gartref.

www.llyw.cymru

 

[JohnW2]

Yes:

Fitness of homes for human habitation: guidance for landlords [HTML] | GOV.WALES

Explains what landlords must do from 1 December 2022 to ensure their property is in good repair and fit for human habitation.

www.gov.wales

Ffitrwydd tai i fod yn gartref: canllawiau i landlordiaid [HTML] | LLYW.CYMRU

Esbonio beth sy'n rhaid i landlordiaid wneud o 1 Rhagfyr 2022 i sicrhau bod eu heiddo mewn cyflwr da ac yn ffit i fod yn gartref.

www.llyw.cymru

Interesting. Although it mentions BS7671 (inevitably in English) and says that the report produced will be an "EICR", it calls the actually testing a "PIT" (Periodic Inspection and Testing), not even "PIR".

Unlike the English Version it does not say which EICR findings (codings) require (or do not require) remedial action (so some might take it to indicate that even C3s have to be 'remedied'!) and it is rather vague about how quickly the remedialwork has to be done:

In addition, a landlord is also required to provide the contract-holder written confirmation of all investigatory and remedial work carried out on the electrical installation. This written confirmation must be provided to the contract-holder within 14 days of the occupation date. Where investigatory and remedial work is carried out after the occupation date the written confirmation must be provided within 14 days of the landlord receiving this confirmation.

... it indicates how quickly 'confirmation' of investigations and remedial work has to be given, but seemingly not how quickly the investigation/remedial work has to be undertaken!

I don't think I would call this an improvement over the (not really fit-for-purpose) English version!!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

The EICR will inform you of any deterioration, defects, dangerous conditions and any non-compliance with the present-day safety standard that might give rise to danger. If no such issues are found the EICR will confirm the electrical installation is satisfactory for continued use.

It seems one word "Satisfactory" no C1, C2, C3, FI, LIM etc. Maybe this is better, however it is like the English version, not required to retest once any faults are corrected, the Minor Works issued after repair is enough.

This test is known as ‘periodic inspection and testing’ (PIT).
PIT is carried out on wiring and fixed electrical equipment to check that they are safe, the test will:

• reveal if any of your electrical circuits or equipment is overloaded
• find any potential electric shock risks and fire hazards
• identify any defective electrical work
• highlight any lack of earthing or bonding

I also noted the PIT which I have not seen before, not really sure what the aim is, as with English version it includes equipment which is fixed, so boiler, immersion heater, as to items like washing machines, cookers and ovens it will depend on weight and if wheels fitted.

However it is the boiler which I see as with English version as a problem. I have to admit a lot of wiring done by Gas Safe people is clearly not electrically safe, but I know where I volunteer maintenance is split up, so the equipment register may well have an entry, "maintained by XYZ catering" so no entry in our in service electrical equipment testing list, however some one, in fact he is an electrical engineer has to ensure all items are tested be them listed as equipment or installations.

This seems to be just asking for problems. The landlord is not trained as a safety officer, and is likely to be uncertain about what is required, maybe trying to get an award for most gobbledygook in one regulation.

 

[JohnW2]

It seems one word "Satisfactory" no C1, C2, C3, FI, LIM etc. Maybe this is better ...

Perhaps- but, as I said, it leaves the possibility of someone interpreting it as a requirement for C3s to be 'remedied'; - which is explicitly said not to be a requirement in the English version.

, however it is like the English version, not required to retest once any faults are corrected, the Minor Works issued after repair is enough.

I think you may be playing with words, here. Yes (and I would say very reasonably), it does not require n entire 'EICR' (of the whole installation) to be repeated after remedial work but, as you know, any electrical work (and provision of any certificate relating to such work) requires 'testing'

I also noted the PIT which I have not seen before, not really sure what the aim is, as with English version it includes equipment which is fixed, so boiler, immersion heater, as to items like washing machines, cookers and ovens it will depend on weight and if wheels fitted.

I wonder if that's what they actually meant/intended? Is it possible that it was written by someone "who doesn't understand" and their phrase "wiring and fixed electrical equipment" was intended to include electrical accessories etc., but not 'connected loads'. It seems clear that they are talking about an 'EICR', and I don't think anyone undertaking an EICR would even consider undertaking I&T on boilers, immersions, WMs, cookers etc., would they?

... as to items like washing machines, cookers and ovens it will depend on weight and if wheels fitted.

Weight and wheels will presumably be relevant in terms of whether or not something qualifies as 'portable', but does it affect whether it is 'fixed'? I've always taken 'fixed' to imply hard-wiring (rather than plug/socket), regardless of anything else.

I would perhaps have expected a requirement for landlord supplied electrical equipment to be "PATested", but i don't seem to see that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I think the problem is ALL electrical things using 230 volt need testing, be it considered as equipment or installation, but as a trade we have split it into two major groups, the installation and the equipment often referred to as current using equipment, the exception is the lights, they use current but are normally tested with the installation.

However the landlord laws seem to have not split it into two groups.

The attempt to reduce the work required to write the law means they have tried to adopt some thing already in existence. We have over the years had inspection and testing done and for non domestic there have been inspectors who would descend upon one if they thought you were not taking due care of your work force, hospitals had to tell the HSE if any one was admitted due to electric shock, and they were quick off the mark once informed.

But it did not say how we needed to do the inspection and testing, it could be a continuous process. And the interval had to reflect what was likely required. What the new landlord laws have done is try to give domestic the same level of protection to commercial, but without the flexibility, maybe we can do an EICR with a LIM so two circuits a year tested, so all ten done every five years, but with commercial it's all in house, but domestic we have some one employed for maybe one day, and it has always been a problem when you have a high turn around of staff.

 

[JohnW2]

I think the problem is ALL electrical things using 230 volt need testing, be it considered as equipment or installation ...

As a generalisation, I agree. However, it is certainly the case that a standard EICR doesn't cover all that, and not at all clear what is the scope (if different) of a 'Landlord Inspection'. However, since both the draft Welsh 'landlord' legislation and the official guidance relating to the English 'landlord' legislation refer explicitly to "EICRs", I would imagine that the intent of legislators in both countries was that what is covered in a regular EICR is adequate in relation to the legislation.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

The Welsh one is vague, English one states "“consumer’s installation” means the electric lines situated upon the consumer’s side of the supply terminals together with any equipment permanently connected or intended to be permanently connected thereto on that side;" I would agree there is a little leeway with intended to be permanently connected, although a washing machine is rarely unplugged, and will likely only ever be unplugged for maintenance, it can be argued either way.

But the boiler, immersion heater, cooker, cooker hood, extractor fans, etc. Are clearly within the English law, but the only current using equipment we would normally test with an EICR (PIT) is the lights.

Also we would normally report defects noted on the DNO supply, but these are not covered with the English EICR.

Normally any equipment provided by the Landlord would be tested with a PAT test, the problem is when one is told you must check set items, it is easy to read as you only need to check set items. Even in owner occupied premisses I get a heating engineer to service my boiler, I am sure I could DIY as I have worked with oil burning heaters many times, but I don't have the test equipment to measure the flue gases and adjust pressures or know when to renew jets.

But I have never looked at the service report to see if all connected pumps, valves, and thermostats are wired correctly. And we see pictures on the forum of boilers where the cable clamps have not been used, green and yellow wires used for line wires, cables with cores showing as they enter thermostats. So it seems these devices do need checking, but if included in a service it needs to state on the document service and safety check, service on it's own may not cover checking wires into thermostats are correctly terminated.