Wanting to charge for fitting main earth

[PMC1959]

Following on from my last post regarding my meter cupboard :

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=184340

The electric company came and removed my economy 7 meter installed a new meter and installed an isolator. I asked him about the main earth and he was as puzzled as me. He told me to ring my supplier (EDF) and ask about the earthing arrangements. I did this and they said they will charge £226 to fit a main earth.
Surely this can't be right as I would have thought it it their responsibility to supply this to the flat. Am I wrong in this assumption?
Thanks

Peter.

 

[plugwash]

IIRC they are not obliged to supply an earth but if they have supplied one it is thier responsibility to maintain it.

What are your current earthing arrangements?

 

[PMC1959]

I don't really know what and if there is an earthing arrangement. It is a purpose built flat and all the main fuses are in a locked cupboard in the lobby. Coming into the flat is a red and black cable which go into the meter then an isolator then the fusebox. This photo shows the arrangement best (pre new meter).

Untitled

• PMC1959
• 7 Jul 2009
• 3

The fusebox is metal and this is linked to the metal casing at the bottom of the picture by a piece of metal conduit. There is definately no other cables coming through the floor.

 

[Chri5]

You need to follow the main phase / neutral cables back.

They could be 2 core armour from the lobby main head, with the armour carrying the earth to metal work on your picture.

You could seek access to the lobby main incoming supply and I bet there's a MEB there.
If all else fails commission a electrician to run a 10mm earth from the lobby.

What with the no lighting earths mentioned in your other post and the age of the existing CU it sort of looks like you should be considering remedial works on the property anyway.

If you do get in the lobby cupboard post back a picture

 

[ColJack]

we need a better picture of where the mains cables come into the trunking..

 

[ericmark]

It seems in my area all to do with how you ask.
I asked the supplier what type of earth should I have. They are duty bound to tell you. I pointed out next door was TN system and with TN-C-S they are suppose to use same system on all homes from that transformer so they had to send out someone to check.
He then tested the earth loop impedance and fitted a TN-C-S system (PME) and it cost nothing.
However had he found that the earth loop impedance was over 0.35 ohms he could have said sorry you need to use a TT system but in theory the supplier should decide what system you have not you.
If you want a TN system in theory the supplier should change all houses feed from that transformer to a TN system and as a result the charge is quite low.
However this is theory and we all know you do get houses next door to each other using different earthing systems.
However there are some advantages with a TT system and for some users they have no option the law will not allow the use of TN-C-S for boats, caravans and petrol stations for example. So I would not be worried about using a TT system and since even with TN systems near everything has to be RCD protected there is really no longer any real advantages with the TN system.
So from what I have read so far you don't know what your system is so phone up the supplier and ask them what it is. If they ask you to look at incomer just say your electrician has asked you to ring up and ask and you are sure if one could tell by looking at head he would not have asked you. Then cross your fingers and see if the do it anyway! Remember they have to tell you not you tell them.

 

[sparkybird]

It all seems to depend on where you live. I'm in an EDF area and they will try and wriggle out of providing anything! I'm back to a job to install an earth rod on Monday (in the 5 sq ft of 'front garden') because after reporting in a Ze of 7 ohms, they came and had a look and said 'well we'd never fit an earth clamp to the sheath, so it's not ours and tough t*tty' (i'm paraphrasing here...) This despite the fact the the client has previous test records showing good EFLI readings and 90% of main earths I see are clamped. GRRR

Still if they don't care that the lead sheathing on their cable is breaking down....

SB

 

[Adam_151]

Still if they don't care that the lead sheathing on their cable is breaking down....

SB

Point out that the The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002 require the sheath is solidly connected to earth...

Normally what they tend to do in this situation is PME the network (or perhaps not ). redesinate your supply as TNCS, and fit a suitable sheath clamp and link that to the TNCS terminal.

Not sure quote what would then happen to the 7ohm resistance between TNS earth and the now CNE conductor in the event of an open neutral though...

 

[sparkybird]

Adam

Yes, I agree. I've tried in the past but dealing with EDF muppets is just like banging your head on a very hard brick wall. The jobs worth who came out to the most recent job wouldn't even take a Ze test...

There is NO chance of a free PME upgrade I can guarantee.

Mind you I'll have to bond the sheath as it is exposed conductive part, eh?

SB

 

[Adam_151]

I suppose it technically an ECP (extraneous conductove part), however to bond it, you have to see permission from EDF...

I'd not bond it myself, if EDF are being awkward ****s, then I'd just not use the earth from the sheath and fit an electrode to make it TT (like you are planning on doing), and notify EDF in writing about the condition of the earthing to their sheath and send it recorded to properly pass the buck to them.

Though, I do wonder what would happen in the event of an earth fault... (230*230)/7 gives just a tad over 7.5kw dispated across the resistance fault... I imagine the cable joint would blow up after a little while

 

[PMC1959]

Once again thanks for your replies.

I think I understand what you are saying about bonding to the sheath but I am assuming by 'sheath' you mean the thick black thing that comes up out of the ground into the main fuse (sorry about the laymans terms) to which the main earth was attached to in my previous house.
As there is no sheath as such, just the live and neutral I suppose this is not an option in this case.
I am going to take ericmarks advice :

So from what I have read so far you don't know what your system is so phone up the supplier and ask them what it is. If they ask you to look at incomer just say your electrician has asked you to ring up and ask and you are sure if one could tell by looking at head he would not have asked you. Then cross your fingers and see if the do it anyway! Remember they have to tell you not you tell them.

and ask them to tell me what the earthing arrangement is and see what they say.

 

[sparkybird]

Sorry OP, I feel that I have hijacked your post a little - but I think this'll be my last, so don't want to start a new one..

Adam - I went for exposed part as it's part of the electricals (being the supply cable and all) but I guess it doesn't make much odds. There's already a clamp on it (which EDF say isn't theirs) so not much to do really - although slightly complicated by the fact that the supply and 'earth' are shared by two flats - I've just managed to track down the owner of the other flat so I can get on with the work - but it remains to be seen how she wants to proceed with 'her' earth.

Good idea though to put the problem in writing to EDF - I'm sure nothing will happen but at least there'll be something on record.

Thanks

SB

 

[PMC1959]

ColJack :

Close Up for you :

 

[ColJack]

not just for me.. we all like pictures...

what's under that? armoured gland? conduit? just a brass bush and locknut?

if it's an armoured gland then that's your earth.., possibly also if it's conduit / trunking in a single run from the main fuses..

stick a meter between there and the live and then the neutral..
if you get 240ish between it and live, and only a few volts between there and neutral then it's connected to earth..