Where to connect shower supply on hot water cylinder

[leylandbobby]

Hi all, I am looking at this shower Mira mode: model number 1.1874.010
it is already pumped for gravity fed systems, but I have recently had a Stuart Turner three bar monsoon pump added to my domestic hot water system. So I have to supply water to the digital mixer pump for the shower before the in-line pump, but am unsure where the optimum connection should be made.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have.

 

[muggles]

Wow, I hope you didn't pay anyone for thai shower pump installation, because it's awful and invalidates the warranty. Launched in with no fux given there...

As for where your Mira should connect, having an Essex flange fitted to your cylinder would be the best option. Preferably don't use the same person who fitted that pump!

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I'd say fit a Surrey Flange to the cylinder outlet, usual practice for a shower supply.

Also, that immersion needs a cover on it, there's possibility of contact with live terminals as it is now.

 

[Madrab]

Completely agree with @muggles, did you install that yourself? If not then if they were a 'Professional' they should be shot.

If you are feeding a 3 Bar monsoon and then another pumped shower runs at the same time on that supply, you could be in real danger of running that supply pipe empty and stuffing both pumps.

What is that pump supplying? If it's just feeding taps etc then it's way too powerful, a 1.5bar pump would be more than enough for a domestic supply.

As @Hugh Jaleak mentions, a pump that size should be run off a dedicated flanged supply to minimise any air it could draw in. Any air bubbles drawn into that powerful a pump, will kill it in no time.

 

[leylandbobby]

Hi Muggles. thanks for your response. I did fit the pump, I have yet to sort the stabilisation for the feeds but didn't know that I was invalidating the warranty.

Hi Hugh, thanks for your response, there is no power to the immersion at the moment. I will go away and google the Surrey flange on the outlet idea, I had only seen them drilled and fitted to the tank.

Madrab, thanks for your response. 3 baths 3 handbasins, 1 thermostatic shower (that never worked at all well until we got the "Monsoon") and 2 kitchen sinks (granny flat) I spoke to Turners regarding which pump and went with their recommendation. Are you suggesting that I need a bigger hot water cylinder? I hadn't considered that. We do obviously keep an eye on kids bath times etc, so as not to find ourself running a cold one.

 

[leylandbobby]

Hugh Jaleak, just googled it and realised that the flanges that I have seen drilled into the side of the tank were in fact Essex flanges. I feel that the Surrey flange is a lot more doable than the Essex. That will sort the shower out. Looking at the info on Essex flanges, the inter web concensus is that even the pro's don't like doing them. Partly due to the future issues that are prone to develop after fitting. Are there any alternatives that you know of.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Good grief, if you've 3 baths, then little wonder you're struggling. There's enough water in the cylinder for one bath probably, then it'll need chance to reheat, (time taken will depend on system and setup), before you've sufficient for another.

Essex Flange's are not for the faint hearted, remember trying to fit a tap to a 45 gallon drum we'd acquired as teenagers, (one of our daft ideas at the time), local Plumber said "It's easy, just use an Essex Flange". We being sarky teenagers, repeated his words back to him and nearly got the flange shoved somewhere we didn't want. Anyway, after several hours of trying to get it to fit following the instructions, we ended up taking the drum, flange and tap back to him, and amid much muttering, he showed us how to fit it. I wouldn't fancy doing another unless I had to, Surrey Flanges are more easier!

 

[Madrab]

@leylandbobby, you need a serious rehash of your system if there is a chance that that cylinder needs to feed more than 2 outlets at the same time using that pump. 3 baths, 3 handbasins, 1 thermostatic shower and 2 kitchen sinks and with the possibility of adding another pumped shower then you need to upgrade your system capacity.

That 3 bar monster monsoon could empty a typical 220L cylinder easily in under 10mins @ full chat so the cold cistern needs to keep up with that, that and you really need a cylinder that will recover its heat quickly, that old cylinder will probably take at least an hour to recover properly.

ST will recommend their largest pump of course, unfortunately they aren't really specialists in advanced hot water systems which is really what you need with those requirements. Of course that pump happily will feed loads of outlets simultaneously but will the system support it properly, I have to say I doubt it.

You need to spend some time with a bit of detailed system design before you start chucking monster pumps at it otherwise you could find yourself in difficulty pretty quickly.

 

[leylandbobby]

Thanks guy's, the existing tank is 140ltrs. It is definitely only enough for one bath fill at a time, usually takes about 25 mins to refresh.The 3rd bath/shower room is under construction so not actually up and running yet. Seen a 206 ltr indirect vented cylinder on ebay, would that make a dent in it do you think. Like I said we tend to work around each other regarding running baths and more often than not it's just the little ones having them as we tend to prefer showers.
Definitely going to look at a detailed system design...looks like another weekend spent researching on the internet (bugger!)
I appreciate your time and advice guy's.

 

[Madrab]

Just to give you an idea, as I mentioned before, 2 med flowing showers (10L of hot water each) running at the same time will empty that in less than 10 mins, anything else goes on, then it'll be even quicker.

If there is even a chance that more than 2 of each of the bath/shower and sink tap are running at the same time for any length of time, neither cylinder would cope. If you fitted the new one and kept the old one then your getting closer, given the potential demand on the hot water supply, to the HW storage you would need IMO but you'd still want to upgrade the cold supply as well.

At the end of the day though it all comes down to how it is all to be used and if that can be stuck to by all and sundry, as that system, as it is, is way underspecced in line with what's currently installed.

 

[leylandbobby]

Madrab, thanks mate. That makes it clear. Lots of sound advice here. Appreciate all the help. Dave.