BMW Z3 Oil sump with no drain plug

[philgro64]

Looking for some advice re best course of action. Wife's car had a service about a year ago and garage(cowboy outfit now closed down) said that the sump plug was damaged(probably by them removing it) but that they had performed a repair which would suffice. I went to change the oil to find that their repair involved plugging the hole with Chemical Metal filler
Looking to sell the car shortly and wondering what my best options are.

1. Would it be possible to create a new drain plug using a threading tool?

2. Have priced second hand sumps and they are not too expensive but removal and refitting looks as if it involves more than removing bolts and changing gasket.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks Phil

 

[Peter.N.]

I think I would be inclined to remove the filler and re tap the hole to use a larger plug, you may have to get one for a different vehicle, alternatively you could use a helecoil if they work in sumps.

Peter

 

[Dave54]

Interesting thread here about 6 posts down
http://www.bmwland.co.uk/forums/vie...&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=sump+plug

Wonder if they snapped the bolt off over tightening, as it's supposed to do from that post apparently, and then left the broken piece in there simply gunging up the hole with filler. If so it may be simply a matter of getting the broken stub out.

Otherwise as already said oversized plug, or possibly Helicoil. I would assume they use loctite on helicoils for these sort of applications, but I don't know much about them TBH.

 

[Burnerman]

Ye gods.....a stretch bolt for a sump plug
Lets hope Dave's link is the one and its an easy fix......I don't think I'd have any problems with a helicoil so long as the metal is thick (is it an alloy sump?)
Second thoughts - there's sure to be some swarf kicking around so I'd only helicoil if the sump was off.....in which case I'd fit a replacement anyway.
John

 

[footprints]

I seem to remember that years ago some of the fast fit garages used to change oil by sucking it out of the dipstick hole. A quick google of "change oil via dipstick" brings up some hits might be worth considering.

 

[Pickup]

Helicoils do work in sumps, alloy or steel.

Practicalities of helicoiling depends on the sump some of them (usually alloy) are much thicker cast at the sump plug area and will easily accept a helicoil. Pressed steel ones usually have an insert pressed in during the manufacturing process which cannot be replaced but can be helicoiled.

Obviously there's the issue of waste from the tapping process - it's unlikely you'd manage to get it all out without removing the sump - catch 22.

Personally I'd get a reputable local garage to change the oil. Most of them now have compressed air vacuum extractors, or if you want to do it yourself buy an extractor. (manual ones are also available - search for vacuum extractors on sealey.co.uk).

I used to wok as a mechanic for the Police and we occasionally outsourced some servicing. I'm pretty sure that Audi & BMW franchises both used vacuum extractors because
A) they never charged us for sump plugs / sump plug seals
B) it's time consuming removing the engine under trays and at £100+ per hour it's would make their servicing costs even more ridiculous.

Hope this helps

F

 

[Dave54]

The only thing I would say is that while these chemical metal type fillers are generally very good, I wonder how reliable they are as a sump plug, when it's odds on that the hole wasn't degreased properly before the stuff was used. Not trying to make problems here, but I don't think I'd be all that happy about it.
As with all these things you have to weigh up the possible consequences of whatever you do, or don't do.
I'd want to at least pull out what was there, and have a look I reckon.

 

[Burnerman]

I reckon the sump plug has sheared off - as you say, you'd never get that area clean enough for anything to adhere. I'm surprised that the plug wasn't leaking in the first place......maybe it was!
John

 

[AlanE]

A bit of lateral thinking here, but if the filler can be cleaned away with a small round wire brush in a drill it may be possible to drill two, or more, small holes side by side and use a flat screwdriver blade to undo broken off portion.

Drilling will always pose the problem the broken off bit will be screwed into sump if using a normal drill but, and here is the lateral thinking part, use a left-handed drill!!

This would enable the small holes to be drilled but also, if the drill is tight fit in drilled hole might just unscrew it in the process.

 

[Belle427]

I snapped one off years ago on a mates car as it had been over tightened.
It does have a hole up the middle of it which aided removal, i was able to get it out with an easy out.
Id probably do a sump change if it were me or at least remove and inspect on the bench to see if it could be repaired.

 

[AlanE]

Even if there is a hole through this particular plug without drilling it out it probably cannot be used as it would be filled with body filler. A drill, left handed, heavily coated with grease, might reduce the risk.

Unless small holes can be drilled without going all the way through the old sump plug then I would think the job is a sump off one as otherwise there is no knowing what contaminates will remain in the engine.

 

[Pickup]

As you're selling the car shortly that could be the deciding factor...

It's my understanding that if you're selling it privately and the seller asks "Are there any problems / defects?" then legally you have to declare them, this is not the case if selling it to a motor trader.

Cheers

 

[mfarrow]

Any swarf that's left in the sump should get picked up by the filter before it gets anywhere near something important. That's the sole purpose of the oil filter, to pick up anything that ends up in the sump, including:

- swarf from the engine, wearing bearings, bores etc.
- contaminates that enter the filler neck
- anything else!

You can always drain oil/get the helicoil done then flush through with something cheap and nasty before refilling with the proper stuff.

 

[Mursal]

Hopefully there is no plug present and all you have to do is clean off the filler and drill for a helicoil or over size donor plug.


As AlanE said, if you sharpen a drill to cut in a clockwise direction (opposite to original) and using a drill in reverse, drill out the old broken plug. This way when the drill grips the plug, it will unscrew it.
Otherwise if the drill grips and the plug is free in the threads (which it should be if the head fell off) it will screw itself into the sump.

 

[AlanE]

if you sharpen a drill to cut in a clockwise direction (opposite to original) and using a drill in reverse, drill out the old broken plug. This way when the drill grips the plug, it will unscrew it.

Never thought of resharpening normal drill. I was thinking of obtaining a left handed drill.

Probably not a lot of people realise you can actually buy them quite easily!!