DIYnot
Local | Network
   DIYnot > Forums
Local | Network
DIYnot Network Local DIYnot Network Local  
  Forum IndexForum Index     RulesRules    HelpHelp     Join FREERegister Free     About CookiesCookies     SearchSearch     LoginLogin 

Need certification regarding load-bearing situation

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    DIYnot.com Forum Index > Building Regulations and Planning Permission
Search this topic :: View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
richard7761

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 260
Location: United Kingdom
Thanked: 1 time

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:30 pm Reply with quote

I've gone to two chartered surveyors who will simply provide a letter of certification that my internal wall is non load-bearing. My local council needs certification.

When asked, one quoted "about 100" the other "110". Must be about the going rate.

Now as I understand it, a survey would have to involve the surveyor turnng up at my house and doing the inspection.

I don't think it is possible that I provide information, by way of a description and pictures, in order to obtain a letter of certification. I think the surveyor must do a visual inspection.

Of course I don't need any beam calculations, (I'm just knocking a non load-bearing wall down).

But later on I have need to knock a load-bearing wall down and I was wondering about doing it with the help of friends.

I have seen some services offering to provide beam calculations. I think, could you could use those beam calculations in any plan you send to building control? Well, in that case, no-one has come into your home before doing the beam calculation, yet maybe it's going to be accepted by building control. Then again, maybe not. Probably not?

I think the situation would be, that most people would be required to get a builder (where a wall is load-bearing) and he would provide the data and the credentials to satisfy building control.

I'm not sure who the target customer is for those places who provide I beam calculation services. It does not look as if they are any good when a householder needs to satisfy building control. If they were, I might have been able to get such a firm to provide certification for less than 100.
Back to top
 Alert Moderators

If you do not want to see this advert, click here to login or if you are new click here to join free.
^woody^

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 12977
Location: Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1255 times

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:04 pm Reply with quote

We're onto the 2nd page and I am still clueless as to what this is all about

What do you need certification for ... I've never heard of this?

Is it a council house and you want permission to remove the wall or something?
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
freddymercurystwin

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 13606
Location: Devon,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1439 times

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:05 pm Reply with quote

^woody^ wrote:
We're onto the 2nd page and I am still clueless as to what this is all about

Yea not just me then? icon_razz.gif
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
richard7761

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 260
Location: United Kingdom
Thanked: 1 time

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:54 pm Reply with quote

I think maybe I'm describing a situation that is not familiar to people.

This is the first time that I have wanted to make an alteration to my council house.

I simply want to remove a non load-bearing wall.

I've contacted the council and have been told that a letter, from a qualified person, certifying, or simply stating, that that the wall is non load-bearing, is sufficient for them to grant permission to remove the wall.

And that is what I am basing my thoughts on.

I've no idea if the procedure I've been asked to conform to is typical or not. It's the first time I've been involved with building control.
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
^woody^

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 12977
Location: Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1255 times

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:25 pm Reply with quote

That's clear.

You are applying for the landlords permission to make an alteration. The council is acting as landlord in this case and it's nothing to do with building control. No?

If so, then I would tell the council to do one. You tell them that you want to remove a non load-bearing wall, and if they want to inspect to confirm this then that is there prerogative - either before or afterwards.

It is not up to you to provide any evidence that the wall is non-loadbearing ... after all its their property don't' they actually know. are you to do their job for them.

Their permission can not be withheld unreasonably, and it is not reasonable for them to expect "certification" that the wall is not load-bearing. It is or it isn't, and all they should be doing is giving permission on the basis that any required structural supports are installed and work is done "where necessary" in accordance with any statutory requirements.

If they refuse permission, then they should give a reason - and this can be challenged
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
richard7761

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 260
Location: United Kingdom
Thanked: 1 time

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:07 pm Reply with quote

Hi. What I should have done is make very clear that I was a tenant in a council house. icon_smile.gif

The guy from the council house was a surveyor. When he came, I though he was going to inspect the wall to establish whether it is load-bearing or not. I was simply told to see a builder and get their view on the wall and provide that knowledge. Or pay the council for a survey.

Of course, the council should have plans. I wonder though if they do, or whether over the years they lost them.

Now, interestingly, a letter from the council mentions nothing of the certification, it simply asks for the address of a contractor doing the work, (if I use one), and the gas safety registration number (radiator has to be removed from the wall).

I emailed the chap about confirming what was acceptable for certification and I never have got a reply on that. Except today he confirmed it over the phone.

There must be some element of building control, somewhere, inasmuch one cannot just make alterations without the council's permission.
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
^woody^

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 12977
Location: Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1255 times

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:19 pm Reply with quote

You don't need any certification

Just ask them for their written permission or written refusal - which should include valid reasons
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
richard7761

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 260
Location: United Kingdom
Thanked: 1 time

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:20 pm Reply with quote

^woody^ wrote:
You don't need any certification

Just ask them for their written permission or written refusal - which should include valid reasons


Apparently so.

So, what is going on? It's weird.
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
freddymercurystwin

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 13606
Location: Devon,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1439 times

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:49 pm Reply with quote

richard7761 wrote:
It's weird

That's this thread you're talking about? icon_mrgreen.gif
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
richard7761

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 260
Location: United Kingdom
Thanked: 1 time

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:13 pm Reply with quote

freddymercurystwin wrote:
richard7761 wrote:
It's weird

That's this thread you're talking about? icon_mrgreen.gif


Probably. icon_rolleyes.gif

I was about to spend 100 on an an aparrantly uneccessary certification. You guys may have saved me that. Cheers! icon_biggrin.gif
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
richard7761

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 260
Location: United Kingdom
Thanked: 1 time

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:38 pm Reply with quote

Remember, I am a tennant of the council, (the landlord) managed by an Arms Length Management Organisation (ALMO). I'm not dealing directly with the landlord but with the ALMO.

I believe the ALMO manages permissions for simple alterations in the home.

As to Building Control, I really do not understand what that deals with or whether it is involved in my case or not.

All I know is that I want to knock down a wall in between my bathroom and toilet. (I know already it's not load-bearing) And an officer from the ALMO ( a building surveyor) has told me I need certification as to the wall's load-bearing status.

The job is not dangerous, it's simple. Knocking down a short breeze-block internal wall.

There is opinion that certification is not required. I think I must ask elsewhere I think to confirm.

If this wall is not a load-bearing wall, then I suppose it's not a material alteration. If so, does it therefore NOT come under building regulations?

But, council is seeking certification as to the wall's status.
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
^woody^

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 12977
Location: Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1255 times

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:58 pm Reply with quote

The ALMO is effectively the landlord, and you deal with them for all tenancy matters

You have been dealing with a clueless surveyor, just get the permission ... which as I said can not be withheld unreasonably

Building control have nothing to do with this if the wall is not structural
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
freddymercurystwin

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 13606
Location: Devon,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1439 times

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:58 pm Reply with quote

richard7761 wrote:
Remember, I am a tennant of the council, (the landlord) managed by an Arms Length Management Organisation (ALMO). I'm not dealing directly with the landlord but with the ALMO.

I believe the ALMO manages permissions for simple alterations in the home.

As to Building Control, I really do not understand what that deals with or whether it is involved in my case or not.

All I know is that I want to knock down a wall in between my bathroom and toilet. (I know already it's not load-bearing) And an officer from the ALMO ( a building surveyor) has told me I need certification as to the wall's load-bearing status.

The job is not dangerous, it's simple. Knocking down a short breeze-block internal wall.

There is opinion that certification is not required. I think I must ask elsewhere I think to confirm.

If this wall is not a load-bearing wall, then I suppose it's not a material alteration. If so, does it therefore NOT come under building regulations?

But, council is seeking certification as to the wall's status.

Why didn't you open your thread with that, all makes sense now! icon_rolleyes.gif icon_lol.gif
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
richard7761

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 260
Location: United Kingdom
Thanked: 1 time

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:11 pm Reply with quote

Apologies to all for not having been more clearer in my statements. icon_rolleyes.gif

So, what is being said, is that a tennant says to his landlord that he has come to the conclusion, or a knowledgeable friend has told him, that the wall he wants to remove is non load-bearing. And he asks permission to remove the wall. Or, he simply asks for permission to remove the wall.

And that if the landlord seeks to establish the status, in order to make a decision, it is the landlord's responsibilty to bear any neccessary survey costs.

This then is the law?
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
richard7761

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 260
Location: United Kingdom
Thanked: 1 time

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:47 pm Reply with quote

[quote="richard7761";p="2316009"

[....]

And that if the landlord seeks to establish the status, in order to make a decision, it is the landlord's responsibilty to bear any neccessary survey costs.

This then is the law?[/quote]

I know what has been said, but is anyone confident enough to say "Yes" to my question?
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
Search this topic :: View previous topic :: View next topic  
Post new topic   Reply to topic    DIYnot.com Forum Index > Building Regulations and Planning Permission All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Similar Topics   Replies   Views   Posted 
Certification for Gas Fire. 14 1380 Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:49 pm
Tricky conservation area situation: replacing windows, help! 4 120 Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:07 pm
Fire regs in this situation? Egress windows not possible 3 200 Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:17 pm
Knocking through internal wall (not load bearing) - regs??? 3 80 Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:54 pm
Chimney removal - no load bearing wall underneath 4 160 Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:39 pm


 
DIYnot
Find an Expert | Find a Supplier | Search DIYnot.com
Network | Advertising | Newsletter
DIY | DIY How To | @home | DIY Wiki | DIY Forum
By using this site you agree to our Terms of Service / Disclaimer.
Please read our Privacy Policy. Copyright © 2000-2014 DIYnot Limited.