Holkham oil paint vs Bedec Barn vs Dulux weathershield

[Ric2013]

Thought you might find this helpful in some time, if I remember to update it...

South-east fascia: On old (possibly C19) softwood, stripped bare in places, in other places just rubbed down hard: primer (Permaglaze (as required)), 2x Glidden trade undercoat, 2x gloss Dulux trade Weathershield (BS4800 14C39).

Applied in September 2011, this still looks to be in A1 condition. Weathershield seems to be a top quality gloss to me.

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South-west fascia: 1980s softwood, fairly weathered. Tried to burn off previous coating (bitumen?) but it wasn't much affected by the heat, so just rubbed down really hard. 3 coats of Bedec barn(forest green) (first coat thinned).
North-East fascia: all as above, except this side seemed to have an acylic paint finish already, not bitumen.

Applied July 2013

Barn is very easy to use, and covers well. It gives a mid-sheen, and looks very modern. Crack-filling properties not exceptional, but it has some ability. Was getting touch-dry in minutes (really hot day) but still brushed on all right. You can slap it on as it dries quickly, best not to overbrush it. Only miffed that the colour was more like a grey than a green - still, I chose it!

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The next was a test area. I haven't bothered with knotting, or with any other Holkham product except for the paint itself. So no zinc oxide was added, contrary to manufacturer recommendations, and Liberon raw linseed oil was used as primer instead of the Holkham one.

South-West fascia: 1980s softwood with rubbed down bitumen, also a section of better quality 1980s softwood which seemed to have the remnants of an old acrylic finish. All rubbed back hard. Coat of linseed oil heated by blowtorch, next day 1st coat of Holkham linseed oil paint [2014 EDIT - this paint is still available, but is now sold as "Allback linseed oil paint"] (Holkham green) as thin as I could possibly apply it.

(Also a small test section inside an iron rainwater hopper over the 2008/9 red oxide primer, and gloss system, both in good order.)

Applied July 2013

This paint dries matt. You have to brush it out really thin, so it takes a little bit longer than other paints. The second coat was applied after 24 hours, and the third coat after another 32 hours (in full sun!). The third coat I made a 'normal' thickness, as if it takes a while to dry it presumably is not a problem. Because it can be applied so thin, runs are inconceivable, and it never gets sticky so the old wet edge rule does not apply. Coverage is outstanding. Exceptional life claimed by suppliers. It smells of linseed oil Looks good, hope it works, as I do like this paint.

 

[Ric2013]

While at the house the other day I noticed that the paint surface on a small round wooden plate (timber in fairly poor state) on an exposed South-East wall, and painted at the same time as the fascia with the gloss system as described above, has already began to develop hairline cracks where the substrate was not fully stripped back.

Obviously a finish is only as good as the preparation , but worth noting that even 5 coats will not hold it all together for more than 2 years in full sun.

 

[dishman]

Hello, I am interested in how your experiment is going.

I am planning to restore my timber windows in the near future and am reserching the best quality most appropriate paint I should use. It is good quality 1930s timber.

From what I have read a linseed oil paint, like the Holkam brand should be very good if applied correctly. Is this correct? Or does it depend on the type of wood?

Any further opinion/experience in this matter?

 

[Ric2013]

While I haven't been up to look at the fascia board, from what I can see it looks like it's holding up.

Also, a scrap of old pallet painted with Holkham which has been on my sunny bedroom windowsill since I started the experiment shows no sign of failure.

Early days yet, but so far so good

EDIT picture of my scrap of pallet, on a drizzly day

15th Oct 2013

• Ric2013
• 15 Sep 2013
• 1

Pallet test scrap - stored on outside windowsill since painted in July 2013

 

[dishman]

While I haven't been up to look at the fascia board, from what I can see it looks like it's holding up.

Also, a scrap of old pallet painted with Holkham which has been on my sunny bedroom windowsill since I started the experiment shows no sign of failure.

Early days yet, but so far so good

EDIT picture of my scrap of pallet, on a drizzly day

15th Oct 2013

• Ric2013
• 15 Sep 2013
• 1

Pallet test scrap - stored on outside windowsill since painted in July 2013

I am interested....What do you think to its finish? It looks like it soaks in and beomes very matt/charchole looking? Is the grain always visible or is that due to how many coats you apply.

I was told by a joiner that he did not feel this would be best used on old, weathered, in situe exterior wood (unless maybe it was stripped back really well) and a more traditional (modern) method would be better, can you see any reason for this viewpoint?

 

[Ric2013]

I think some of the oil may soak in, the paint itself stays on the surface.

I wouldn't say the grain IS visible. What you are looking at in the picture is a very scrappy bit of pallet, with a couple of shakes and a bit gashed out near the top of the photo. The pallet scrap in the picture has had the full 3 coat system.

Definitely a silk or eggshell, not a gloss. May look glossy when first applied but give it a few days and that goes.

I was told by a joiner that he did not feel this would be best used on old, weathered, in situe exterior wood (unless maybe it was stripped back really well) and a more traditional (modern) method would be better, can you see any reason for this viewpoint?

Too early for me to make a useful answer. When you talk of stripping back, do you mean the existing paint or the weathered wood surface? The Holkham website recommends that this system be applied to bare wood...

 

[dishman]

Too early for me to make a useful answer. When you talk of stripping back, do you mean the existing paint or the weathered wood surface? The Holkham website recommends that this system be applied to bare wood...

Yes...all old paint layers removed and maybe lightly sanded to show the bare orignal weathered wood....I don't know why he did not think it would be good to applying to old wood...he did say he would apply it to new wood....but not old wood that has been in place for years....

 

[Ric2013]

Just a quick update. Had a chance to look at the Holkham (Allback) and Bedec up close today (15th May 2014)

Neither shows any sign of failure and both are looking to be in good condition.

It seems some people on the web have had mould problems with Holkham (Allback paint). I cannot really comment, as I wouldn't see this on a green paint anyway. I DID see an isolated patch of mould on top of the Bedec barn though.

As far as I can make out, the Holkham Estate has ceased to sell the Holkham paint. It is now available in the UK with its manufacturer's name, Allback. (Holkham paint was always Allback paint, but it was being re-labelled for the UK market).

 

[Ric2013]

Another update:

I decided to use white Allback paint on the new garden fence in June 2014.

Some was primed with the 'wrong' ie non-Allback brand oil. Some with the Allback branded stuff. Some oil was applied hot, some cold and then heated with a blow-torch. Some parts of the fence installed before the new drive and then covered in clay. Some installed after, so kept clean.

This was on the Southish side of the house in June.

By November, there was a bit of a grubby look to the fence. The factors above seemingly had no bearing on performance. It washes, but has some residual staining. No doubt it protects alright, but as a decorative finish, I would not recommend using white outdoors in the British climate based on this experience.

That said, the parting bead on a sash window dating from 1890 I stripped and repainted at around the same time still looks bright and white so it might be fine on a building.

The pallet scrap sat on my windowsill has peeled _very slightly_ in a couple of places (not sure whether I even primed that scrap properly to be honest), but, unlike gloss, the Allback has not peeled back and trapped water, and the oil does seem to be protecting the wood even there). It does shed pigment when wiped with a microfibre cloth.

I still think it's a lovely paint to work with and I think the maintenance cycles claimed by the manufacturer (7 and 14 years) are probably accurate. For this reason, I will be using it again (internally, and in another colour than white, externally).

I get no money or other incentive for writing all this, but willing to discuss

 

[Ric2013]

February 2016:

So what's new?

The dark green gloss (now 4 years and 5 months old) is starting to show signs of failure where it was applied over previous paint, but still working perfectly where it is on a sound surface. Small hairline cracks have appeared in the gloss.

The grey Bedec Barn (now 2 years and 7 months old) (next to the very dark green section) is still holding well. In a couple of patches on the iron downpipe, it has come off, leaving the previous coat of gloss exposed. This may have been poor preparation, but I think I'd have got away with this had I used gloss.

The very dark green Holkham (Allback) paint is showing no sign of failure anywhere. I think there may be some surface mould, but this is not apparent on green paint, so I cannot be sure.

 

[Ric2013]

The other question is, what about the white fence installed in June 2014?

Actually, I'm not happy with the white fence at all. Some of the pickets weren't primed with the right brand of oil, but ALL the pickets are mouldy - just different colours of mould. 15% zinc oxide was mixed into the first coat of paint as per manufacturer's guidelines - there should be no mould.

You might excuse the pickets as they were treated timber that arrived wet and had to be washed and left to dry out for some considerable time before they could be painted, but the posts and rails were dry clean sound timber and should have stayed white: they haven't.

Does the dirt wash off? Water and a microfibre cloth (nothing more extreme) got it looking a lot better, but it still isn't pure brilliant white any more. And this happened in one area (this area was definitely primed with the 'proper' Allback linseed oil, not the other brand):

That's right: the surface of the paint is coming off. While the oil is likely to have penetrated the wood and may still be protecting it (and perhaps this was a resinous area not needing protection until the resin washes out), this is still a fail in my book. Paint is supposed to be a decorative finish. No doubt the fact that the wood was sold to me wet and mouldy (thank you Jewsons) and was then washed with bleach and rinsed and dried before painting won't have helped (Allback specifically recommends that high-PH cleaners are not used), but then I had to paint the fence I had, not a fence I didn't have.

Besides, this peeling of surface also occurred on some of the rails of the fence - these were good clean timber and had had no bleach on them. If this peeling is my fault, it may be that not enough linseed oil, as primer, was absorbed. But by this point, I'm blaming the instructions. None came with the paint, but they are online and they were consulted. But they seem to exist in different versions, which gets confusing. They say to heat the oil (I'm sure I've seen various ways - I had it hot in a can), and then paint immediately. This is what I did - but I'm not convinced it was the best way in the circumstances... and it takes a lot to go against manufacturer's instructions. Is this really a paint that is suited for use by those without product-specific training?

Indoors the paint was a fantastic alternative to gloss and the problems associated with external use don't exist.