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RF Lighting

Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 16149 Location: Leeds, United Kingdom Thanked: 718 times
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:39 pm |
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I guess that's more suited to where there's multiple boilers? |
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gaswizzard

Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 6255 Location: Hertfordshire, United Kingdom Thanked: 974 times
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:24 am |
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Those 28mm distribution pipes will be an issue with regards to circulators stalling when on full load , not being picky.
A handful DPDT relays would be the way to go , I prefer the Drayton RB1. |
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matt1e

Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 1957 Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom Thanked: 206 times
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:31 pm |
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and the LLH isn't plumb as well as the flue looks as though it has been "forced" over as it certainly is not in line with the boiler.
I'm not being picky either though  |
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xr4x4

Joined: 01 Oct 2009 Posts: 2421 Location: Hampshire, United Kingdom Thanked: 190 times
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:42 pm |
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What's the black box below the boiler? |
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gaswizzard

Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 6255 Location: Hertfordshire, United Kingdom Thanked: 974 times
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:03 pm |
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A low loss header which is supplied with 2" tappings.  |
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The following user says thank you to gaswizzard for this useful post:
xr4x4 (17 Mar 2012) |
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xr4x4

Joined: 01 Oct 2009 Posts: 2421 Location: Hampshire, United Kingdom Thanked: 190 times
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:07 pm |
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Ok thanks..
What does it do....! |
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gaswizzard

Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 6255 Location: Hertfordshire, United Kingdom Thanked: 974 times
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ecowarrior

Joined: 21 May 2010 Posts: 6091 Location: Northamptonshire, United Kingdom Thanked: 1369 times
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:25 am |
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the black box (Low Loss Header) does various things. The pump on the boiler inst big enough to supply the whole system under full load - so the boiler pump ( now called a shunt pump) only needs to pump the hot water from the boiler to the LLH. It is sized up for the boiler (presumably this is a 60Kw LLH) It also helps the boiler keep its designed delta T across the outputs to reduce thermal shock across the heat exchanger.
It also means the the boiler services the LLH rather than all the various demands the other 4 zones have. It can also be used to 'even out' using 2 boilers. So if 2 x 30Kw were used on a cascade then their joint inputs would go into this LLH to be distributed to the various zones. This is done for various reasons - break downs being the obvious one , as at least one boiler will still b running but if a very small load is at times required then the ratio of max to min modulation on the boiler ( lets say its 6:1 means max mods on a 60 is 60 but the min 10.) if the min loading is 5 Kw then the boiler will cycle uneciserily. So using two boilers @30 with 6:1 means with only one boiler running the lowest o/po is only 5Kw.
This is not my area of expertise & GW & LeeC do these every day. I do see where GW is going with his 28mm pipe though,. I am sure more knowledgeable people than me on these things will add or correct.
A not so clued up plumber ( or one just putting in a cheaper quote to get the job) would just bang on a slightly larger head pump in the boiler and pipe it straight up to zones via valves. It would still all work to a fashion and everything would probably still get hot - but it would not be ' due dilation'
This is a good example of a big house installation. Added to this there could be W/C on each (or just some) circuit and even different flow temperature requirements on differing zones. |
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The following user says thank you to ecowarrior for this useful post:
xr4x4 (18 Mar 2012) |
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matt1e

Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 1957 Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom Thanked: 206 times
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:58 pm |
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Thats a pretty good discription eco, I will just add in case it wasn't clear that any system demands ie valves closing ,pumps turning on off or ramping up/down etc have no effect on the flow through the boiler
Eco's mention of the boiler shunt pump is what me and gaswizzard were getting at when we commented on ebees earlier post on the first page
"the big loop" ebee refered to is also a low loss header and the pump he thought "should be bigger" would have been specified to match the boiler req flowrates etc
around the header, the size of the system punps have no baring
Matt |
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ecowarrior

Joined: 21 May 2010 Posts: 6091 Location: Northamptonshire, United Kingdom Thanked: 1369 times
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:50 pm |
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Just been reading thru this again- have to have a chuckle at the sparkies & their 'ELV' & the plumbs with their 'LV'
I gave up with 'ELV' ages ago or no plumbum has a clue what u r referring to. Its like u have to hang up the phrase when u purchase a set of bending bars!
Even the boiler MU's call it 'low voltage side' and '230 volts side' |
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RF Lighting

Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 16149 Location: Leeds, United Kingdom Thanked: 718 times
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Dan_Robinson

Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 15303 Location: Hertfordshire, United Kingdom Thanked: 1795 times
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kevindgas

Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 5563 Location: Southampton, United Kingdom Thanked: 431 times
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:09 pm |
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forgive my ignorance on low loss headers but how does the system expansion get taken? doesn't the low loss header keep heating circuits seperate from the boiler circuit? is it not like a huge plate to plate? |
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gaswizzard

Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 6255 Location: Hertfordshire, United Kingdom Thanked: 974 times
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:00 am |
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| kevindgas wrote: | | forgive my ignorance on low loss headers but how does the system expansion get taken? doesn't the low loss header keep heating circuits seperate from the boiler circuit? is it not like a huge plate to plate? |
A low loss header provides hydraulic seperation between boiler/s and system circuit/s , it's basically a large vessel whereby flow velocity is minimal therefore creating circuit seperation between primary/secondary circuits.
The water in the secondary circuits mix with the water in the primary circuits (boilers/radiators) , flow rates for ring/header circulator/s must be equal too or exceed flow rate for secondary circulator/s. |
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kevindgas

Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 5563 Location: Southampton, United Kingdom Thanked: 431 times
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:34 am |
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can i have that in english now please!! does or does it not keep the two halves seperate? i:e like a plate to plate or is it just like a 4 pipe boiler where the 2 mix together inside?
never got involved in big stuff hence i know nought about these things. |
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